The Unexpected Career Podcast

Olivia Minnock: Arts Degree to Fintech

• Megan Dunford • Season 1 • Episode 1

Share episode

Season 1 Episode 1

Hear how Olivia found her way into Fintech after pursuing a degree in Literature and History.  It's a journey of transferrable skills, finding the right environment and future-proofing.

There's a book recommendation in there too, which you can find here: https://www.100yearlife.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theunexpectedcareer/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@unexpectedcareer?_t=8sery0sUV73&_r=1
Webpage: https://theunexpectedcareerpodcast.buzzsprout.com

Welcome to the unexpected career podcast, where we share stories of real people and the twists and turns they have taken along their career journey. I'm Megan Dunford. And as someone who found myself in the payments industry, largely by accident, I'm fascinated by how people's careers unfold and how they've gotten to where they are today. It's also why I am passionate about reducing the pressure on young people around going to university. What to take in school and on getting that right. First job. Today's guest is Olivia Manock, who is currently senior partnerships manager at MMO. OB and embedded finance FinTech, where she focuses on sales, marketing, and helping the company scale. Before joining MMO B Olivia spent her first five years of her career as an editor and soon found a niche in the FinTech space. With her degree in literature and history, she never saw herself working in the tech space, but now is ingrained within the UK FinTech ecosystem and has run a number of events and programs that directly support fintechs in scaling up, gaining investment and expanding across borders. Olivia's journey truly demonstrates the power of a liberal arts education. And I love digging into this discussion about how the skills she gained have been transferable and valuable on her path into FinTech.

Megan:

first of all, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the Unexpected Career Podcast. I really appreciate it, especially since we've never actually officially met in person. Thank you for being my first cold call, so to speak, to participate on the podcast. I'm really excited to get into your journey and hear how you got into FinTech and all of that good stuff.

Olivia:

Thank you. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. And I think that's the beauty of things like LinkedIn is we feel like we know each other a little bit already. And we've already had a chat, so I think it's really important topic. So I'm looking forward to getting into it.

Megan:

Cool. So I always like to start right from the beginning and what did you want to be when you grew up, when you were small? What did you think you wanted to be?

Olivia:

Yeah, when I was a kid, I really wanted to be an archaeologist. That was my kind of first memory of really wanting to do a particular job. I was obsessed with history, which I remain obsessed with today. So that was my favorite thing to learn about at school. And I loved the idea of like digging things up and learning about how people's lives used to be. So that was a big thing. And then the other thing I got quite into writing, creative writing as I got a little bit older. So I really wanted to be an author. So those were my two kind of big career goals from the age of about five to 12.

Megan:

Oh, wow. Amazing. And then did you pursue that? Did you go to university? If you did, what did you take in university?

Olivia:

Yeah. So I went to Anglia and I studied literature and history. So yeah, very connected to both of those things. You know, I, I chose. I guess I was interested in those topics, but I also was conscious I wanted to choose a really broad degree. And UEA is great for flexibility in that regard as well. You could do as much or as little as different subjects as you want, which was really nice. So I got to do some kind of media stuff from different schools and things. And I think my thing when I was applying was keep as many options open as possible. I think a lot of people, so I. did my secondary school in Ireland, which is where my family are from. And there was a lot of kind of, Oh, history. Okay. You're going to be a teacher or you're going to work in a museum. That's what you're going to do. You know, it's very connected to what's the specific role that you can do. So there wasn't really that outlook of having a broad Mindset, but luckily myself and my family were on the same page that, no one gives you a job because you know when the battle of Waterloo took place, but they might give you a job because you've learned research skills or you've learned how to analyze information or tell stories or different things. Yeah, that was my goal in doing the degree.

Megan:

Yeah, I love that because there's so much pressure. On kids to pick something that maybe is practical is going to lead to this big job at the end. And I think that pressure is getting worse. There was so much rhetoric in the news coming up to the UK election and even in the years prior of high value versus low value degrees. And to your point, it's really about skills that you learn and the capabilities you gain rather than necessarily the specific topic that you might be developing those skills around.

Olivia:

Yeah, I completely agree. And I think it's difficult now. I think more so a lot of ways life is easier now, but it's difficult in that no one knows what the next 10 years is going to look like next 20 years, and it's not something now where you do a degree. You go into a job and you work at the company for 40 years and then you retire and that's that, you have to be really aware of that and really open that there are jobs that will not, we don't know about now that will exist in, in five years time. When I was younger, my dad used to be a teacher and he used to say to his pupils, Oh, I never wanted to be a web developer because. I didn't know what the internet was when I was a child, it's just kind of these things that are going to come up. So yeah, I think everyone has to just think about transferable skills really. And that's one thing that I think. I wasn't really taught at school, but I had that in my family environment, but I, um, I was really lucky about that. So I've always kind of recognized in every opportunity I've had, like, okay, what can I learn from this and then take and bring to something else?

Megan:

Yeah, I think that's really powerful. And, you're really lucky that you had that support to go that route. So after. University, what was your first job out of school?

Olivia:

So I was thinking, so I had two jobs while I was at university, which was in a call center and a pub. And they probably remain the places where I learned some of the most important skills that I have. So talking to people that don't always want to talk to you. So the sales element people happy dealing with big hordes of drunk, loud people, really, really useful skill. But my first kind of. full time job when I left university was as an editor in a business to business media company. So that was around creating content among different, lots of different sectors. So technology, but also things like sustainability, energy, mining construction, all these sexy topics. And I actually had a great privilege in that job to be able to interview All kinds of different business people. So I would be able to call up a CEO, ask them about their life, write an article on it. And so that was a really great first opportunity. In some ways I had thought about whether I would go and do a master's or do something business related, because I was really interested in that, but actually, Just two years of doing that job, you took in so much information and I always ask people like, what did you do wrong? What do you, what did you learn? All these kind of things. So that was really interesting.

Megan:

So a master's in business in itself of just hearing, how CEOs are going about their business and what they're learning and how they make decisions.

Olivia:

Yeah, exactly.

Megan:

and that ties also to your initial thought of wanting to be a writer so did you stay in that function or role or industry. Have you built your career there or have you made changes?

Olivia:

Yeah, I guess both. This is where it diverges a little, which is really interesting. So I think I went into that job being like, okay, I can write. So I'll do that. And actually it was one of a few experiences I've had where I went to the interview. And I talked a bit about some work I had done at university around more the publishing and the editorial side. We were all told at university, just because you've got a literature degree, don't try and be an editor. Everyone's going to try and be an editor. Don't bother, essentially. So I didn't. And then I went in and it was like a web writer job and I'd had the interview and it had gone fine. And then a couple of the people on the interview panel said, actually, we've got this other opportunity, which is more around editorial rather than fully writing itself. And we think you'd be more suited to that. So I thought it was great. So I went in, but that was the only thought process. I did that job for a couple of years and got to the point. It just wasn't the right environment for me to be in. And so I was looking around at different jobs and literally was like, okay. FinTech, good. I like that. I started with our technology publication. I'd done more and more on FinTech and I was really interested in that area. So I saw a job that was like FinTech editor and I was like, cool. I can do both of those things. Let's go. I applied to that and got that job, which was in London. So moved here, which was, remains the best decision I've made, I think, in my life. And I. That job was really interesting. So that was a company called FinTech Alliance, which was a community of context financial services companies. So that was still a similar job. It was still editorial interviews, video creating content, but it was also more of an element of being part of an ecosystem, building a community, partnering with different companies, helping them identify what skills and talent was needed by them, what investment they needed, how to access that. So that really opened up my eyes to the kind of things that I enjoyed doing. And it wasn't about the writing and editing and content necessarily. It became a lot more about, I was like, okay, what I'm actually enjoying here is meeting all of these different entrepreneurs and different people. seeing if we can support them in some way. So that's where I realized that was my, what made me tick,

Megan:

also another way to really Dig deep into fintech and learn because fintech is so massive in terms of the different types of financial services that a fintech might be offering. So that's a really cool opportunity. And again, kind of like a master's in fintech of getting to meet all these people.

Olivia:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the thing you can't, there, there are some great academic programs out there. And I'm someone who naturally was always very academic. So my first instinct is like, Oh, I should do a course on this or whatever. But I think with something like FinTech, it's moving so quickly. And as you say, there's so many facets of it, you can't learn it in a year or go, yeah, I've got a certificate in FinTech now I'm qualified to do that. So what you have to do is get really comfortable with not knowing everything, but asking everyone questions and finding out and I think I came into the Industry and just felt so comfortable doing that as well. And I think people in my experience in this sector are so collaborative and open and no one expects you to know everything, but they're happy to share and explain stuff to you as well. So yeah, it's been, that's been a really good opportunity and I think it still is something I really benefit from.

Megan:

Amazing. And so that was really the start. Your journey in fintech, what has that journey been like since then?

Olivia:

Yes, so now I'm working in a very different role to where I started out in my career. When I was Finishing my time at FinTech Alliance, I decided I wanted to do more on the practical support side for FinTechs themselves. And I kind of had got sick of writing as well, a little bit. I'm over that now, but they say, do what you love and you never work a day in your life, but you actually come home. Oh, I don't want to do that again. So I was like, okay, I want to do something a bit different. I wanted to learn a bit more kind of skills on the commercial side. I wanted to get a bit more information on what it's actually like to run a startup and grow a startup and things like that. So I initially was going for a job as I had applied and been accepted for a job in a VC fund, which was around helping their portfolio companies to develop. So that was kind of similar, but then a bit of a change from the FinTech Alliance role. Unfortunately that was the beginning of 2023. So everything kind of went down the toilet and that role was made in London, which was lots of fun. But they were, they were great. They had given me a severance and everything. So I wasn't I was medium panicking about that instead of. big panicking about that. And so I took a step back and was like, okay what do I do now? And it was quite an interesting to have that experience. Cause I think throughout your life, you're always like, I'll do this exam. Then I'll do this. Then I'll get this job. Then I'll get this job. And suddenly you have to sit back and you're forced to go, okay, what do I actually want to do? And I knew I didn't want to go back to editorial. And I also knew that I wanted to stay in fintech because as I said it's just my place that I feel really comfortable in. And that was how I ended up with the role that I'm in now in MMOB, which is an embedded finance startup scale up business. And so the role I have now is around partnerships. So. essentially sales and and partnerships in a technology startup. So it's completely divorced from what I was doing before, but I think it was really interesting because I I knew it was a bit of a risk to take and I knew that they were taking maybe a bit of a risk on me coming from a completely different background. I think, and this is one thing I like about startups is that they said, okay, we can see how your different skills might contribute to this and the network you've built and everything. Bring that in. I could see that too. When I've explained it to other people. And this is where the kind of unexpected career thing comes in. People are like, well, I don't understand. Why did you do that? You used to do this and now you do this and the other people can't quite fit it together as such. But I think the only people that need to understand it are you and the person hiring you. But it, it was quite a, the redundancy thing was really, funny to look back on. Because I was had a couple of offers of, Similar jobs to what I'd been doing previously. And I was just, and I was with my parents at the time who would be more practical and traditional and stuff. And I had a call with someone who was offering me something. And I just said to my dad, like, Oh, that's just really like bad vibes. I just got bad vibes from it. And my dad, who's, you know, 76 year old Irish man was like, what do you mean? Vibes? They're giving you a job. You're not going to pay your rent. Like, what are you talking about? But it was that kind of. gut feeling that I had. And I was like, Hmm. And then with MMOB, I just had a really good gut feeling. And I'd spoke about it with my, one of my previous bosses. And I said, do you think that's silly? And he was like, well, no, because your gut feeling is based on all the experiences that you've had in the past. Right. And you just know that this is. That's a good step for you. So yeah that's kind of how that happened, but it was an interesting process being forced to think, what am I going to do now, and when your job title has been really simple before, like editor, everyone knows what that is, you know what it is. It's a very defined path that you could take. So coming out of that was, yeah, kind of strange, but good.

Megan:

Yeah. Redundancy is such a mixed blessing, obviously it's stressful and, there's lots of, Worries about money and finding the next job and, but it's also such a great opportunity, as you said, how often do you get a chance to pause and really think about, okay, well, wait, what do I actually want to do next and maybe make a different decision rather than you're on a path and get carried forward with it.

Olivia:

Yeah, I think also it was interesting because when I reflected on, because this was something that the opportunity came a bit out of the blue. And when I reflected on the years I had spent interviewing people that were in, quite further up in their career, the one thing they all had in common was that they had all said, yeah, and then this kind of random opportunity came along and I thought that sounded interesting. So I did it and I learned this from it. And so I thought, okay, yeah, that, that seems like maybe this is my one of those. And I could see there was. A lot of things, there was gaps that I wanted to fill in my skills. So the direct sales experience, understanding how this business grew and being within an actual startup. Cause I always want to be in jobs where I support startups. So I was like, you can't really do that unless you've understood from inside. And then also the technical knowledge, being able to actually understand. To go from this kind of broad editorial outlook of things to actually more granular in a technology that, that is really interesting to me. Yeah, so it was all kind of in the right place at the right time.

Megan:

Yeah. It's funny how that, that works out sometimes, these random opportunities are exactly the step forward you didn't know you needed. It's just thinking again about redundancy, just because I know especially right now, so many people are going through this right now are there any tools or processes you use to do that evaluation or, what, how did you reflect so that you knew or had an idea of how you wanted to move forward or what skills you wanted to be plugging so that when this random opportunity came up It was maybe, I don't know if the right word, but like less scary to take that chance.

Olivia:

Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting one. And I guess my advice probably isn't helpful for someone who's suddenly now in this situation, but I guess a lot of what helped me was the groundwork I'd been laying for the kind of years previously. So I had a really big network of people, which was great. I have a quite outward facing job anyway, but I think any. build that network on whether it's linked in or online or going to events and things. I've also always had a really wide range of different mentors and I've always tried to just listen to everyone and take on board different pieces of advice. So there was lots of that came away, whether it was from, my parents, my friends from school, my previous, Bosses and colleagues, people in the industry, you know, I think many, many people are happy to support. So you should always say look, just say to someone, look, I've got this going on. I don't really know what to do. And they might give you a little piece of advice or wisdom there. I think there's that. And I think as well, just having the attitude that like, what is this going to teach me? And I think everything you do, I've done jobs that I've absolutely loved and jobs that I haven't loved so much, and I've always been sitting there with the mindset of, okay, what am I taking from this to go to the next thing? And I even have that, in my job now where something maybe goes wrong or doesn't work out the way I want it to. I'm going, okay, this is great because I need to learn to deal with these challenges and into my, to my future. So I, yeah, I would say I leaned a lot on my network around that. But I know that's, yeah it's difficult time at the moment in terms of redundancies and everyone buying similar jobs. But that's another thing I would say is. Yeah. Take a really broad outlook because there might be, you might have been made redundant from marketing manager but there could be hundreds of people all looking at roles for marketing managers. So think about different types of jobs that exist. Maybe even just look at a company you really like and think, well, how can I kind of get into this company? It might not be the exact role I was doing before or my favorite position, but there might be some skills that you can bring in and have a look. So I think the flexibility. piece is really key as well.

Megan:

Yeah, I think that's good advice, especially in the current market, which is quite difficult. The other thing you touched on is just the importance of culture and following your gut in terms of what feels like a good fit for you and the right culture for you. Is that something you can expand on a little bit?

Olivia:

Yeah, yeah. I think it's really interesting because as I said, the first job I was in, it just wasn't the right culture for me and I didn't feel comfortable there and like I could be myself and that's not negative on anything or anyone. It just wasn't the right fit. And it's really funny because when I think about how reserved I was and how I felt in that role, if I said it to my colleagues today, they would be like, You're like the loudest person and you're always in a good mood and you come in and, engage with everyone and stuff. It's quite funny. And even when I was at school all my teachers would have said Oh yeah, she's so shy. She's like the shyest pupil in the class. My parents and brothers would be at home going, What? Are you talking about the right kid? So I think it's really interesting because everyone thrives in a complete different environment. But I think the challenge when it comes to your career is you don't know what all those different environments are and you have to do a bit of finding out, what suits you. I mean, I remember doing an internship in civil service and I very quickly realized Absolutely not. This isn't for me. Because it wasn't that it was civil service. It was in a massive, massive organization where I was this like really tiny spec wasn't making any difference. Most, it was very slow moving. There was a lot of red tape and things like that. And also for good reasons, but I just was like, no, that's not where I'm going to thrive. I'm just not going to enjoy that. So I knew very early on that I didn't want to work for a really big company. That was something I had quite straight in my head. So it's always drawn to smaller and medium sized businesses where you feel like you're more involved in all aspects of the business and you can see how it runs and you can go up to the CEO anytime you want and ask them a question and stuff like that. That's very much more my environment. So I knew that, but I didn't know around, as you say, different cultures. And I think the issue is I started in my first ever job and was like, Oh, I'm not really happy with this. But I just thought that was like jobs, jobs were just that. So it's really, it's kind of difficult. So then I moved into my second job and just immediately was like, Oh, okay, this is different. Maybe different companies are different and things run differently. And I felt like I was building. Better relationships with my colleagues. I was building better relationships with wider clients, network, etc. And then the job I'm in now is the same. I just feel like I fit in really well and I'm not self conscious and things like that. So I think. You should really experiment. It's hard to experiment when talking about making a living, I will say like you, you have to go in and make money where you can and don't just leave and go and do your own thing. But I think it's just about finding out early as possible in your career, okay, what size company, what type of people do I want to work with? What type of role do I want to work for myself? Do I want to work for other people that looks different to everyone? But that will be. An environment that's for you, you just need to find it.

Megan:

It's also good advice of if it's not working you don't have to stay there. Every place is unique and different. Cause to your point in your first job, you thought, Oh, this is just what it's like to be in the working world. But actually, when you went to a new company, it's like, Oh, the environment's completely different. I think a lot of people sometimes feel like, oh, this is just what it's like, and I'll just, stick it out or feel like they're not, they don't have a choice, or they won't find something better. But actually, every company, every industry, has completely different elements, and it's finding that right kind of magical Venn diagram of size of company, culture, et cetera, that, leadership that all overlapped. That works for you. And that is different for everyone as well. Like you said.

Olivia:

Yeah, exactly. And I think there has to be a bit of a balance, right? Because I think sometimes nowadays we're too far on the other way, where you see someone who's like on TikTok and they're suddenly a millionaire and things and you think, Oh, I'll just quit my job and do that. Surely we can all do that. And it's actually very challenging and it doesn't always work out. And I think. One thing I have seen is people saying, Oh, I'm going to become I'm going to work for myself because I don't like working with salespeople. When you work for yourself, you are the salesperson, but you can't just, yeah, you have to look at it in a really broad mindset and say, okay, is this something I want to stick with? If not, is it the industry? Is it the size of the company? Is it the people I work with? Is it? Me and my skillset, try and look at all the different elements and figure out maybe one or two at a time, what can I adjust? Cause you can, your career is sadly going to be over 40 years that you're going to be spending working. Right. So there's plenty of time to pull the different levers and say, all right, yeah I've now tried a bigger company. Turns out I didn't like that. That's okay. Yeah, within reason you can experiment a little bit.

Megan:

Yeah, 100 percent agree. And you touched on it, but when you look back through your career journey even before your coaching journey from university are there kind of common threads that you can see when you look back?

Olivia:

Yeah, I think it's really interesting because lots of people say, Oh, my career has been so random, you know, I've done all that and life is random. So that makes sense. But whenever I've interviewed people, like I've said about their career. Yeah. You and you probably find this as well. It does make sense when you look back from a distance, you're like, no, that makes perfect sense. You did that. Then you did that. But at the time it feels a bit but I think, yeah, there's a couple of things like the storytelling element has always been there. Being able to, it's what I do in my job now doing taking a technology that's quite new and unfamiliar to people and explaining. What it does and what it could potentially do has always been a big part of my career. Again, like I've said, seeing opportunities. in different areas interesting in innovation. And I think even when I think about my interest in history, I was at the Grow London Grow London event yesterday at the Royal Institute. So that was built in, I think, 1800. And we're in this room where they used to deliver science lectures. And now we're talking about quantum. using AI. And I think it makes sense because you're, you have to look back at history to understand where you're going and it's about progress and things like that. So that all ties in for me. And I think also another thing is the type of jobs as being like a self starter. I've never really had a job where someone sat me down and gone, this is exactly the job you're going to do. This is what you're doing every day. Go. You know, it's always kind of like, these are the goals. Go and do that and go off and come back when there's an issue and that kind of thing. Go off and

Megan:

figure it out.

Olivia:

Yeah. So those are some of the things that I think run through the story. And I'm sure there'll be more as well in the future.

Megan:

Yeah. A hundred percent. Agree of there are always kind of those connections and their connections are really about skills and things that you enjoy that you pull through with each job, and it is only a reflection where. It makes sense. You were saying before, when you, took on this role from the outside to people, it's oh, that's a weird decision. It's completely different, but actually, as you said storytelling is such an important part of your job today of, you're working in a fairly new technology and being able to Tell that story and connect it to the history of financial services and fintech is really important.

Olivia:

Exactly. It'll make sense in the end.

Megan:

Yeah. Is there any advice you would wish you could go back and give your younger self?

Olivia:

Yeah, well, I guess it's one of those things if you knew everything, then your life would be very different. So maybe I wouldn't spoil it. But yeah, I love to think about things I would do differently and advise as a couple of things, as I've said already find the right environment for you. There will be your kind of tribe, your group of people, your environment that you can join in and fit in. I think that's one. I think also like you've got, you have time. I'm really guilty of this now. I'm still working on this where I'm looking at someone else's career and going, Oh, why haven't I done all of that? They've done so much more than me. And it's well, it's because I'm 28 So they will have done more, it's just one of those things. And I think we are all in that world where we're all in a rush to do everything by the time we're, 30 or something ridiculous like that. So I think your career is going to be long and you will have the opportunity to do lots of different things. I think there's kind of times to push on certain aspects, times to pull back and relax a little bit. And I try to take that attitude. And also I think. You're going to have opportunities to do things that are really benefiting society, things that are really benefiting you, things that are part of different interests. So don't panic if you're not doing it all right away. And I take this attitude. So I'm a very keen, but struggling runner. I'm really trying to get into running. And one of the, I started off doing the thing where you kind of walk and run. Yeah. Alternately get into it. And I read this thing online and it just said run until you get tired and then walk until you feel guilty. And that's what I try and do in my job as well, because you know yourself when you're working really hard and when you're not. I think, there are times when you're like, I need to learn loads of new things, I need to do this, and there are times when you can say, Actually, I'm in my job now, I'm quite comfortable, I'm gonna Relax into it, enjoy it have a better balance, and then you'll probably start to feel a bit after a year or so. Mmm, I should be maybe pushing myself again. So you know that, so just be conscious of that. Yeah. And I guess another thing. That I would say is I really try to focus on what is the day to day of a job look like, because that's the most important thing at the end of the day. Are you going to get up and enjoy going into work? I've got a relative at the moment who's leaving. She's had a long career in the military and she's now leaving and thinking what to do next, which must be quite a big shift from something that's very defined to the world as her oyster. And I'm sure she'll get there. Lots of opportunities because she's very intelligent and accomplished and it's really interesting because she's like, Oh what job should I do? What are the job titles? I don't know what all of them translate as. And I just said what do you like doing every day? You know, what do you want your day to look like? Do you like dealing with lots of people? Do you like being on your own? Do you like being creative? Every day of the week. What do you actually enjoy doing? Just focus on something, focus on that first. And I think, okay, where can I get that? Yeah. And it might, mightn't be a particular industry or a particular job. So that's what I try to just relax a bit and focus on the day to day sometimes, rather than where's this going to get me in two years.

Megan:

Yeah, I think that's really powerful because we get really caught up in the job title or the company working for a big glamorous name and that often has nothing to do with what your day looks like. So focusing on that 1st, and then maybe asking for the right job title, if it makes sense is, maybe a better way to approach it. I like that.

Olivia:

But I think that's a really good point you've made is asking for that as well. And I think that's actually where I really I tell everyone to go and work in a startup. And I know it's not for everyone, but I'm really for it. And I know it's a big risk for people. And it depends where you are in your life. But I think I talked to a lot of my friends who are like, Okay, I have my next review in 18 months and then I might ask them if I can do this and then I can get a two percent pay rise and stuff. Whereas I think I really like being in an environment where you can just go to your boss and say, yeah, I'd quite like to do this. Actually. Can I get involved in something else in the business or what I do? And I think. You have to develop that. It's scary to do that at first, but I think I like being in those environments and like you say, if you're working towards a particular, maybe it is a job title you want or a particular type of job you literally can just go and ask someone and say, how do I get or go to someone? I want to be you. How do I get to you? Or like, what did you do? How did you do it? Or whatever. And people will help you and support that.

Megan:

Yeah, people are always happy to share, which is kind of what we're doing with the podcast.

Olivia:

Exactly. Yeah.

Megan:

The last question I have is really what are you hoping for next? What's your vision for the future?

Olivia:

Yeah, I think. It's really interesting. I guess the interesting thing about working in a scaling company is that you change with the job. So the company I'm in now but also in my previous roles, I think you aren't thinking, okay, this person's now above me and I'm going to be them in two years and that's how it's going to work. So I think it's really exciting to see how the role develops as the company grows. But I think for my. my overall kind of career. Again, I'm doing that thing. I'm focusing on what I like to do every day. And also getting comfortable kind of not knowing what's the next step. And as I said before, like I, Was always very academic and I think it's taken me the last 10 years of life to come out of that and get a bit more chilled out about it. And, because it's always, I think I really did thrive in that, like, you're going to do your, GCSE A level equivalent, then you're going to do uni, then you're going to get a degree, then you're going to do that. And then you came out of that and you're like, what do I do now? You know, what's next? And you have a lot of choices to make and things. But I'm comfortable with that unknown, but I know that I want to be working in and with startups. I want to be building. Communities because I really see the benefit in bringing different businesses together, bringing the right people into the right places and helping them grow. I think it's quite a scary time at the moment in the world, especially with the way technology is moving faster than most of us understand, certainly faster than I am. So the best thing you can do is try and be in the middle of it all and be learning about it as much as possible. And I've always said in my career, like I I don't want to invent the next big thing, but I'd quite like to be there when the next big thing's being invented. Kind of support in some way or be around that excitement. So that's my focus. So it's quite a broad answer. But I think that's the best way to be, I think it's about. Making enough money to live comfortably and having a job where you go in every day and you get on well with your colleagues and you get on well with all the people that you encounter in your working life. So if I can keep that, that will probably still be in FinTech. I might look into something around, Other things I care about, mainly education. I might look into things around that. I like the idea of supporting people into their career paths and journeys as well. But yeah, that, that's it really. I think. You can build yourself a life of doing lots of different things around your career. So I've got my job now in partnerships in a tech company. I also do a bit of writing now on the side. I've lost the ick that I developed when I did it full time. I've got over that now. So I'm starting to do a little bit of writing. I'm currently learning stand up comedy as well. So we'll see if that becomes a thing. And I do I talk, I tour guide as well. I work on a historical site here in London as a volunteer tour guide so that you can always bring in all the different elements of what you love doing into your life. It doesn't have to be A particular job that includes all of that, I guess.

Megan:

Yeah, I love that of bringing in your passions in different ways and that your job doesn't have to fulfill all your needs. That's, I think that's really, really cool. And yeah, if you do any stand up gigs, let me know. I'd love to see it.

Olivia:

I've got a, yeah, I've got a showcase coming up. So I've been doing this eight week course, and we all do five minutes at the end. That will be interesting. Amazing.

Megan:

I've heard stand up is the best way to learn how to be a good public speaker, because stand up is like on the extreme end of scariness of, getting up in front of people, in my opinion, anyway.

Olivia:

Yeah, and part of that was why I did it, because I really like public speaking. It's been part of my job for some time, but it's nice to be able to bring a bit of energy into these things. And actually I will add one more piece of advice. The most important thing is to have a sense of humor because in any career, you know, I've got relatives that are, as I said, in the armed forces, I've got relatives that are farmers, I've got relatives that are in medical professions, whatever. And we all agree that if you didn't have a sense of humor, you'd be, you'd find it very tough. Yeah. Yeah, you have to see the funny side of things and things go wrong all the time and you just have to be able to laugh about it. That's a good skill as well, I think, in any career.

Megan:

I agree. It definitely makes the hard days easier. Amazing. And I think the other thing just as you were talking about the future and your vision for the future is. I love how clear you are on what that looks like, even though it's not prescriptive, you're not like, I want this job, prescriptive, but you have really clear, I guess, boundaries or guardrails of what works for you based on your experience to date and what, you know, you like and and then bringing in all those, elements outside of the day job to keep all your other passions alive and part of your life as well. So I think that's really amazing and really, I think, inspiring to others to, not. Let those other things go as, hobbies or other things of interest.

Olivia:

Yeah, I think so. And I think it's important as well to talk about that. So if you can get to a point, and I didn't get to this point on my own where I was able to articulate those things, it's from speaking. I think the, I think the first time it happened was I was at university and I'd started a society and I was speaking to the careers. guidance person who was really helpful. And she was like, Oh, so you're a facilitator. And I was kind of like, Yes, but you know, you don't go around going, I'm a facilitator. I was like, yes, that's what I like doing. I don't really, I'm not really the one who wants to be doing everything. I want to bring other people together that are a lot more creative and intelligent and help that, help foster that. And there's been a few other times where I've spoken to people who are like, I can tell you really enjoy that. Or, when you were doing this, you seemed to really, passionate about it and things. And then being able to, so being able to get that in your own mind and then articulating it to other people is really important because I think you, that's how you get opportunities you don't even realize. But if you're putting things out there saying, I'm really interested in public speaking, or I really like this, people will remember that and they'll come to you with different opportunities. Like you've said, it's not always a defined, do you want to talk about this topic in fintech, but it's that they know you like public speaking. So whenever they come across stuff, they'll send it your way, I suppose, which is good.

Megan:

Yeah, and it's so powerful, those I would call them like, maybe unofficial mentors who help articulate and see the connections or the skills and are like, I don't know if that's the right word, but package it in a way that, and articulate it in a way that's sometimes hard to do yourself because a lot of time, and I find this myself of if something feels easy, we think, Oh, well, it's just easy for everyone, but actually it's easy because you're good at it. It's your part of your unique skill set. And sometimes it takes someone from the outside to see that and then articulate it back to you.

Olivia:

Yeah, I'm the worst for that. I'm actually, it's terrible. I'm very So I'm one of the only non technical people at work. So I'm always just like, Oh, they're the smart ones. I don't know anything, but it's just because they're doing something that's so different to what you do and that's their skillset. Right. And yeah. And I think I had that recently. I had a coaching session. So yeah, I actively, and I think, especially when you work in a small company, you have to go outside sometimes and speak to other people to get that. And I think. I said to someone in a coaching session recently, like, oh, you know, these are the gaps I'm trying to fill right in my experience and she was like, why are you so focused on everything you can't do? Why don't you think about actually, I'm really good at all these things. But because they're things like, writing or public speaking or they're things that everyone can kind of do a little bit.

Megan:

Yeah.

Olivia:

So everyone thinks, um, and you devalue it a bit yourself and maybe other people devalue it a bit as well. That's really interesting. So you have to have a balance. I think you have to fill gaps, but also be really proud of your own talents. I used to joke to people like, Oh yeah, I stopped being a writer because I was going to get replaced by ChatGPT. And it's It's kind of a joke, but it's kind of serious because even though that's not the case, I think a lot of the people with purse strings like CEOs and CFOs will think that's the case. And so it's about, yeah, finding how you can use your skills in a way that is valuable. You see the value, but also other people see the value too. So that's interesting one, I think it's a challenge still.

Megan:

And technology certainly is adding to that challenge, but. I think that's exactly right of understanding your strengths and how those skills add value and learning how to articulate that to others and then find the right place for those skills as well.

Olivia:

Yeah, exactly. I think it's future proofing yourself as much as possible. One thing I'm getting, this might be controversial, I'm getting a bit tired of everyone saying they don't teach us this in school and it's to an extent, yes, they should be teaching more things like financial skills in school and things like that, but also what you should be taking from school and what we should be helping people to get from school is, What are the skills I've learned? What are the like, I keep coming back to this transferable skills, but it's like, I mean, I just, I'm going through a flat purchase at the moment. No one teaches you any of that, but what they do teach you is here's how to ask your solicitor these questions that you'll get the right response. And here's how to manage all the different elements and here's how to read documents. And if you don't know about something, here's how you can find out. Those are the kinds of things we need to focus on because. as we keep saying, we don't know what's coming. So you need to make yourself as future proof as possible by going, okay, I can learn how to communicate with people. I can learn the kind of skills that helped me learn other skills, I think.

Megan:

Yeah, I 100 percent agree. And I, my view is the number one job of school is to Teach you how to learn because school is never going to be able to teach you every skill in, in the world that you need as you navigate the world and the world is changing so much. There's no way they even know all the things that you might need to learn to navigate, but they can teach you how to learn.

Olivia:

Yeah, exactly. A hundred percent. And I think sometimes they're the subjects we like devalue because. Rightly so we're trying to focus on STEM skills, which are much needed, but also some of the humanities subjects, they teach you how to analyze different things. They teach you how to empathize with different people. And my mom used to teach religious studies as one of the subjects. That she did. And there was always kids in her classroom. Why are we learning about this? We're not religious. Why do we have to learn about different religions around the world? And she was like, she always said, it's really important to understand how other people think, and how other world view is shaped by these things, whether you believe it or not, this is something that it's about understanding other people's mindsets and that's not something that you learn overnight or just can automatically do. You have to really get into that, those topics. Yeah it's that, and I think that's our only choice now as well you can't just pick a subject that you're gonna learn about for the rest of your life, unfortunately, anymore. Yeah,

Megan:

and honestly, if everyone took the same thing in school, we would just have one perspective, and it's those diverse perspectives that, Create new things find connections in information, find that, gap that really is going to make a difference to someone or to the world. And so if everyone was doing the same thing, that's actually going to stunt progress in the long term.

Olivia:

Yeah, exactly.

Megan:

This was amazing and I could, I think we have similar kind of. Views on the importance of education and scope of education. So I feel like we could talk about that forever, but thank you so much for sharing your journey and how, you went from an arts degree to, partnerships in FinTech and the decisions you made along the way, some of them conscious and some of them maybe not, but you know, how you've navigated that. That journey and and thank you also for sharing really great advice that I think is going to be really helpful for others. Thank you. I've really enjoyed this conversation.

Olivia:

Thanks. Yeah, I really enjoyed it too. It's great to be able to reflect and I just need to start following some of my own advice now, I think, as well.

Megan:

I mean, that's always the case, but yeah, again, thank you so much. Thanks.

Olivia highlighted something that I think is really key, especially with the pace of change in the world today. And that's the importance of future-proofing yourself by developing the skills of how to learn, how to ask questions and how to communicate. Three of my big takeaways from my conversation with Olivia were around transferable skills, the importance of finding the right environment and future-proofing yourself. First transferable skills, Olivia highlighted how the skill she learned early in her life had been extremely valuable as she has navigated her career. Including research, critical analysis and storytelling developed and honed in university. And sales and managing difficult stakeholders in her university jobs. I think people often discount these early experiences and the solid foundations they create for your future career. Second of all the importance of finding the right environment. Over time. Olivia has learned that the FinTech startup world is where she really thrives. But that can take some experimentation to discover what kind of culture or industry or size of business works best for you. And it will be different for different people to paraphrase a quote by Einstein. Uh, fish, isn't going to thrive on a tree. And third. Future proving yourself. I think Olivia touched on this concept from several different angles. With the speed of technological change. We don't know what technology and therefore jobs will look like in five years. So to sustain a career over 40 years. We need to develop the critical skills, like the ability to learn and adapt. But it's also important to find the right walk, run pace that works for you, and also find joy outside of your job. Which has a nice side effect of allowing you to explore and develop new skills to. Finally Olivia's advice to not compare your journey to someone else's is so important. After all what's that saying? Comparison is the thief of joy. And lastly, I would love to leave you with a book recommendation that I think really speaks to a lot of the themes Olivia and I discussed. The book is called the hundred year life living and working in the age of longevity by Lynda Gratton and Andrew J. Scott. Thank you for listening to the unexpected career podcast, please follow, share and rate on your favorite podcast provider. The unexpected career podcast is produced, edited and hosted by me, Megan Dunford. See you next week.