The Unexpected Career Podcast

Jenny Basen: VFX Producer to Portfolio Management

• Megan Dunford • Season 1 • Episode 5

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Season 1 Episode 5: Jenny unexpectedly found herself in the film industry and over 20 years built her career across Canada, Australia and the UK, climbing the ladder up to Executive Producer (and winning an Oscar along the way) before make a role and industry change.

This week's book recommendation: Stand Out by Dorie Clark - https://dorieclark.com/stand-out/

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Megan Dunford:

Welcome to the Unexpected Career Podcast, where we share stories of real people and the twists and turns they've taken along their career journey. I'm Megan Dunford, and as someone who found myself in the payments industry largely by accident, I am fascinated by how people's careers unfold and how they've gotten to where they are today. It's also why I'm passionate about reducing the pressure on young people around going to university. What to take in school and on getting that right first job.

My guest today is Jenny Basen. After ambitions of working in micro-lending unexpectedly found herself in the film industry. Most recently as head of production and executive producer for a visual effects firm. After over 20 years in the industry, she has now taken on a new role in a new industry as strategic portfolio partner. For the BBC. I loved hearing. Jenny's winding tale of how she ended up in film and visual effects. And how that career took her from Toronto to Vancouver. To Sydney and now on to London. And how she was able to transfer all the skills she developed over her years in film into a whole new industry.

Megan:

First of all, thank you. Thank you for doing this.

Jenny:

Thank you for having me.

Megan:

I'm excited. You are one of the inspirations for this podcast, so I'm excited to talk about your journey and your career story and, um, yeah, get into it. I'm

Jenny:

excited to share it with you.

Megan:

Cool. I always like to start with what did you want to be when you grew up? When you were little Jenny, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Jenny:

Well, I'm pretty sure I wanted to be a princess who fought dragons. There weren't many avenues into that line of business. As I realized when I grew up, so I had to for many incarnations over over time. I think I always wanted to be in a creative industry. At 1 point, I was really taken with photography. and that led me into the path of potentially becoming a director. And then at one point I was going to go work for my dad in the family business. I did a summer stint working with him and I realized that wasn't the path for me. And then I think, I when I hit my teenage years, didn't really know what it was that I wanted to be. So it was something that I sort of left to the winds in a way and, decided that I would figure out when that time came.

Megan:

Yeah. I happen to know that you did go to university. how did you decide what to take in university? Where to go? how did you make that kind of 1st adult decision?

Jenny:

So I came from a long line of female university graduates. So I was the 3rd generation of women in my family to go to university. That's very unusual. It was, it was very unusual. Yes. Both my grandmothers went to university. My mom was a teacher and my dad had 2 masters degrees and was aiming for a PhD, but decided to marry my mom instead. And my family took education very seriously. So I, I didn't really have much of a choice in which direction I would end up but, I'm just having friends who had gone to university ahead of me who are older than I. And listening to their stories about what university offered, I think we all found high school challenging at times. I think, it's a very prescribed. Molds that people fit in high school, whereas when they went to university, I think they, they found that they had a lot more freedom and flexibility to be who they were or who they wanted to be, I think thought was encouraged. I'm challenging status quo was encouraged thinking outside the box was encouraged. And I think to me, those are all things that really resonated with me and things that I. I felt we're lacking in high school to some extent. So I, I was excited about the prospect of going to university. And so what did you take in university? So I took economics and international development. So again, I'm a third generation economics major. So again, not that was forced upon me, but I think it was something that I found easy and interesting. In my 1st year, so I and actually I thought that I would go into business. But if I'm completely honest the prospect of having to do co op terms that broke up my semester where I would have to go back home scared and frightened me. So, I went the route of economics and I found that very interesting and it made sense to me. It's sort of clicked in my brain quite easily. And then the international development side, and I just like the prospect of traveling. I've always been excited by traveling excited by foreign cultures and understanding how they work, what is it that sets them apart from us? How do, how are we the same? How are we different? So that really fascinated me as well. So that's the avenue that I took in university.

Megan:

That's cool.

Jenny:

And what was your 1st job after the

Megan:

university?

Jenny:

So I went, oh, God. So I was convinced that I was going to do an unpaid internship in sub Saharan Africa or in rural India because when I was studying in university, I fell in love with feminist economics which looked at the work that women were doing that often went um, Calculated when looking at GDP, like housework, child rearing elder care and if they were remunerated, they weren't remunerated as highly as jobs that were mostly associated with men. So that was incredibly fascinating to me. And so when I graduated I decided that I was going to go work for a micro credit bank in some random flung place in the world and work with a female micro credit bank, because there were we learned about these amazing companies and NGOs who were giving women small loans. To start a business and to be able to support their family they could buy a goat and sell goat milk, and be able to make a living to, to support their family. And I thought that was fascinating. So that was something that I wanted to definitely get into when I graduated. But my mom was basically like you can't sit around here and wait until you, you hear back, you need to get a job because, it was pretty clear that she hadn't helped to pay for university for all those years and wasn't really prepared for me to sit around and wait to get an unpaid internship. And then if I was interested in going to sub Saharan Africa or rural India, which she did not support that I was going to be paying. My own way. So I had to do a bit of savings and perfect. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Be able to support myself and, luckily in those parts of the world, you don't need a lot of money to survive, but you do need some. And at that point I had none. I ended up getting a job with the market research company, and I think my job was basically to put out cans of coke and other various beverages and snacks for people who were doing focus groups. And so my job was to put the pencils down to put the focus group questions down and to feed them. And then my job was to escort them to the bathroom, should they have to go and then clean up after them when they were done. So rather soulless and unfulfilling work. So when a friend of mine called to I, I knew, I pretty much known my whole life. She and I ended up on the same film set, so I did craft services and in one of as one of my summer jobs when I was at university, and we ended up on the same film set and met a bunch of people. She graduated a year ahead of me. And then when she graduated, she started working for a film company. And so one of the film companies that her boss was affiliated with needed a receptionist who because from a maternity cover. And so she's do you want to do this? And at that point I was like, I want to do anything other than what I'm doing now. So I took the job. And it was great. It was great learning experience. Very fast paced environment, really young, creative, interesting people and, and they represented a lot of directors internationally. So a guy called Janusz Kaminski, who is the director of photography for Steven Spielberg. We used to represent, so he would come into the office, I'd be sat there being like, oh, good morning. Yeah, um, which was pretty amazing. And yeah, he had a film that was showing at the trial film festival and he was shooting in Toronto at the time. So he gave the whole office tickets. So I got to go to his film premiere. And, he came over and said hello, in, his film premiere reception at Toronto Film Festival. So that's, I think, when I fell in love with the idea of working in film. And I was making money, I was young, it was fun, it was exciting. And so when, I finally heard back from all my internships, I was just sort of like, well, can I defer? Cause I'm having a really good time doing what I'm doing. And then, yeah, ended up staying there for, I guess, about a year and a bit. So they moved me up to in house assistant producer, but didn't pay me much more. But I was working twice as much. And yeah. So when someone I had met on one of the film sets, That I was doing craft services for and so randomly ran into him having lunch in Toronto and he was like, oh, hey, I remember you. It was like, oh, my God. Hi. And it turned out he owned a visual effects company, and they had just landed a big job doing an animated film for Disney. And so Disney was at the end of their partnership with Pixar. And hadn't really signed a contract with them to continue. So they were looking for alternate companies to be working with. And we got a film I guess it wasn't we, it was they got a film. And he was like we're looking for people if you're interested. And I said, absolutely. So interviewed I think it did maybe four interviews with, a whole host of different people, and then finally got a job I think about four months later. As the coordinator for the R and D department and literally knowing nothing about film and knowing nothing about R and D. I guess a little bit about film, but live action, film production, not animated film production. And yeah, so I just went in cold, went in blind and, did that for, I think about, 6 or 7 months, maybe 8 months and then yeah, so there was a job a friend of mine got promoted and she needed a coordinator in her department and that was actually working with the creative side of the film, the filmmaking process. So I put my hand up to, to move into that role and then got that role, which was amazing. So I worked with the they called them scene prep, but they're a layout department. So they layout all the characters and the cameras and sets and just make sure that sort of everything is. Is ready for animation to then pick up. So they've gotten sort of the camera path. They've got the camera motion. They know what the shots framed as sort of the visual storytelling points are all there. And then they make the character come to life. So that was the job, and it was great. I had a great time. It was a wonderful team. And still, still friends with and quite good friends with a bunch of them. And we still keep in touch and whenever we see each other, it's sheer excitement and like big hugs. It's wonderful. They're always,

Megan:

great jobs when you carry. That beyond the job, like the relationship that

Jenny:

that job to me, still that group of people, and I've come across a lot of them and or brought them in where I could at whatever job I was at, because we all got along so well. And it was just full of such unbelievably talented people. So I was very lucky. He was very lucky to be a part of that. And then when that finished. So I think that was about two and a half years I was on that film for, and then when that finished I got another job working in animated feature in Vancouver. So hopped a flight. Well, I hopped a flight, but sent my car cross country and yeah, moved to Vancouver. So I was, that, that was not as fun of an experience for me. But I got through it and then yeah, how

Megan:

did you. So what's that with a different company? Was it a so a completely new job? How did you decide to pick up sticks, so to speak, and try out Vancouver and move to the other side of the country? And, like, how did you go about getting that job?

Jenny:

It was mostly through people I had met. It was completely, in fact, through people I had met working on it was the film, the first film was called The Wild which not a lot of people saw because, sadly Disney bought Pixar, I think about two months before our film came out, so there was no marketing for our film. But it was wonderful, and at one point, we were the number one video rental and DVD purchase. That's how old we

Megan:

are.

Jenny:

And that's how long ago it was. So yeah, I guess people that I had met working on that film had worked on a film called Valiant with the same people who were doing the film that I ended up working on in Vancouver, which was a film called Space Chimps which I wouldn't recommend seeing.

Megan:

I mean, the name makes it sound very interesting.

Jenny:

It was a very interesting experience. One that I, I prefer not to repeat ever again in my career. I think I was only there for a year and then, my, my contract finished and I was looking for my next role and friends of mine who had worked in Sydney, Australia. Has seen a job posting for a coordinator role at the company that they worked at and said, you should look at this. They're a great company to work for. So I applied thinking I'd never get it. And then at the same time another visual effects company 1 of the big ones from London was looking to open up a shop in Vancouver and I was interviewing there. And I would have been in like employee number, I don't know, five in Vancouver. Considering staying in Vancouver or moving to Australia. I ended up taking the job in Australia. You went

Megan:

from moving across the country to moving across the world.

Jenny:

Yes, pretty much. And again, I loved traveling. At least when I was younger, one of the big draw points to me was being in a career that allowed me to travel. So I was very lucky in, in the sense that I got most of the places I've ended up living I've got to stay there for a fair amount of time and actually really see and get to experience where I was. So yeah, picked up sticks, moved to Australia. Initially, it was for 6 month contracts. Then it got, it ended up getting extended to nine months, I think, because our show went a little bit longer. And then at the end of the contract, they were like we don't have any work, but we really like you. So why don't you go home and then you can come back when we've got more work for you. And I was I don't really want to do that. So again, there was an animated feature company that I had friends who were working there at the time. So I was like, can you put it in a good word? And because I had that experience on my CV, and they were looking in the immediate term for an RD department manager. I ended up getting the role, but then, I negotiated that I would do it for six months, set it up. And then I wanted to go back into creative industry. So I left visual effects, went back to feature animation. And I think I was there again for about two and a half years. And then, that came to an end. And there's another visual effects company where I had friends and applied for a job there and ended up getting a job there, which was great. So I was there for another year, I guess. I'm was like I don't really know if I want to be in Australia anymore. It's very far away. My parents are getting older and, my grandmother had passed away when I was in Australia. And that was a bit of a wake up call, in that when you're that far away, it's hard to get home and it made you realize your mortality and your, your family's mortality. I had. I just had thoughts that maybe it was time to move a little bit closer and a friend of mine who was working at a company in who I met in Sydney and he was a very good friend of mine, who was working at a company in London was out interviewing people for roles. And she's like, any interest and I said, absolutely. So I sat down with her, did an interview with her. And yeah, so she put my name forward and interview with the head of production and then ended up getting the job, which was great. So ended up moving from Sydney to London. Closer to home, but not all the way that definitely, definitely closer to home and work for a company called Dean egg. Who are wonderful I had, while I was there, I had it was an incredible experience. Again, really lovely people people. I'm still very much friends with I've met some of my closest friends there and, people who are very dear to me. And yeah, I was there for about 5 years, so moved from a line producer, which I guess was a step down for me, but I was willing to take that step down to have the opportunity to come to London and then did 1 film, which was interstellar, which was, rather well received. And we ended up winning the Oscar for visual effects, which is my team. And I got thanked on the thank you camera at the Oscars. And I think up until that point, my mom was like. When's she going to get a real job? She needs to get a real job. And then, the moment she saw my name across the screen at the Oscars, it was like, my daughter's made it. So then she stopped asking when I was going to get a real job and when am I going to come home? The other great thing that I got to do when I was working on Dunkirk. I got to spend six months in Mumbai and working with the team in Mumbai, which was amazing. Best of times, worst of times. I've never been so sick in my entire life. But I've also, I had the most wonderful time. We had the most wonderful team. Again, we just felt like family. I still keep in touch with a lot of the people that, that I met there. So I've worked on like absolutely amazing films. So I worked on Interstellar, worked on Ant Man, worked on Thor Ragnarok, worked on Bohemian Rhapsody.

Megan:

I remember finding your name in the credits for Ant Man, like looking for it and pausing and being like, I know that person.

Jenny:

Yeah, it was, I'm, I've been very lucky. I've worked on some unbelievable films and I've worked on, I don't know if it still is. I don't know if it's been beaten, but worked on the highest grossing film of all time, which was Avengers Endgame. So that was pretty cool. And that was actually, again, a really great team and a really enjoyable experience and great clients as well, which, Marvel can be tricky at times, but they were wonderful and lovely. Yeah, so it was great. And then, went to a company called Framestore. So again, the first first film I worked on was Endgame, which was great. And then worked on Dolittle. Not the greatest film of all times, but definitely one of the greatest teams. So again, met people on that film who I'm still very close with and still very good friends with. Then COVID hit and it was just a little bit choppy. So prior to COVID we were all set to start Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness. But, and they were set to shoot in London, but I think a week before the shoot was supposed to start, they shut down. London, basically, and so

Megan:

shoot obviously very hard on the film. Well, filming in general, whether it's TV or films in person.

Jenny:

No, you could not. Yeah, there was a bit of a a hard time. Certainly at the beginning of COVID and everyone was what's going to happen? We don't really know what's going to happen. Is all filming going to cease to exist? And, and I will say this filming came back reasonably quickly, which was unexpected. The film industry did put a lot of checks and balances in to make sure that, people were shooting safely. People were being sequestered so you were in like a safe bubble. So no one was getting sick which was. Great and meant that they keep filming and, they had COVID tests on set daily. Just to make sure that no one was bringing it into set, which again was great. So things went back to normal pretty quickly. And so I had, I did a few small tests and worked on like a small sequence for Venom. Let there be carnage which was a lot of fun. And then, yeah, went back to work on Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Badness. I think, two and a half, almost three years at Framestore. And then went to a company called Untold because they were looking for an executive producer. So that was a step up for me. So smaller company, but I was a bigger fish. And they just seemed like a great company to work for. So I took that job. And then Got moved into a head of production role as well as still executive producing and so that was looking after a team of about 20 and setting up sort of processes and procedures, making sure that we were getting work and making sure that work was being executed properly that the team was all comfortable and happy. And it was, and we had a wonderful team. That was about two years. Because of the wonderful world of film and things contracting a little bit. the industry

Megan:

was hit again with writer's strike so that really would have. Slow things down

Jenny:

And it's still, but it still hasn't bounced back. Pre writer strike and pre actor strike. I would say that the the number of films being made, certainly the number of films that require sort of temple visual effects, or even invisible, the effects are less than I think that, generally, the studios are making less. Making less effectively, and so that, that really hurt visual effects industry. And I, I still have a few friends who, are still unemployed after a year or 9 months or so it's been quite tough, I think whereas. Pre writer strike, you knew that you, were able to sign a contract and it was likely certainly if you are at a bigger studio that the contract would be extended. Whereas now it's people have bigger gaps or, significant gaps. I think that has made it really difficult. Smart

Megan:

uncertainty in general.

Jenny:

I think as a result I'm told was looking to downsize and unfortunately I was one of the casualties but ultimately I think it was a, it was a blessing in disguise and, it made me reevaluate what was important to me. I was working around the clock. I, I think some of the management there is great. I think some of the management wasn't a good fit for me and I think that was making life difficult and it was something that I had recognized, but given the sort of, the, the state of the industry and given that it was difficult to find roles similar to the 1 that I had. I, it wasn't that I wasn't looking. It's just, I wasn't finding anything that I think really fit me. Well, and yeah, so it, being made redundant allowed me the time to refocus and figure out what's important to me and what do I want out of my career. And I think one of the things to me was that I wanted my time, I was, film is amazing and wonderful and exciting, but, you go through periods where you basically have to say goodbye to your friends and family during crunch time, because, at the end of the project, things get hairier and hairier, you've got deadlines. People are working later, you've got all kinds of. Crazy client requests coming in I would often be working 6 days, 7 days a week and often sometimes to like international as well. So your client might be L.

Megan:

A. you might be working with another team in another country and then you're in London.

Jenny:

Yeah, so we had team in India. We had team in. In London, and then we had team and our clients were more often in L. A. so meant that you didn't get online with your client till 5 PM and you needed that time. You needed that time for other feedback or for, calls with the producers to make sure you were on the same page or to look at finances or, you're often answering. Oh, I was often answering emails till. 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, even before we hit crunch time. Yeah. So, it was hard. It was very hard. After Untold I, again, through people I knew was asked if I'd be interested in a job posting at the BBC. And, I was able to parlay my skills from managing R& D teams, understanding sort of the technical workflows project management and time management and people management and ended up taking a job working at the BBC as a strategic portfolio partner. So my job is basically working with the chief product officer and the. Chief operational officer for the product group and dealing with a lot of the pan BBC communication and upward communication to executive committees and other sort of executives. In the BBC and then communicating that back down to the team and looking at um, longer term strategy and how we remap and rebrand our strategy. As a product group to try and achieve our, our ultimate goals. So that's been incredibly interesting. So I'm, I think only 9 weeks in 10 weeks in. So it's been a steep learning curve, but I'm, I've been incredibly lucky. I've worked with some, so far, wonderful people and people are incredibly encouraging, incredibly positive incredibly. Appreciative it's a really nice team or really smart team. I would say, after 10 weeks, really cohesive team which has been great. And I, you know, have a life my team is all in London, we, generally my days are done. I think the latest I've worked so far is. 630 and that, I mean, I could have clocked off earlier if I needed to, but, I wanted to get something done and my time is up to me really. So it's been, pretty wonderful and pretty amazing. And I'm really excited for, what the BBC has to offer and, friends have said how good I look and how happy I am. So I think I've made the right decision. Yeah, I think

Megan:

I've made the right decision. Yeah, I was just thinking cause you're in a new role now and it's a different industry and you were in the film industry for a really long time. How long were you in the film industry total?

Jenny:

20. So I started working in 2002 and so 22 years.

Megan:

Okay. So yeah, that's quite a daunting change. And I know you're still pretty new into it. But how have you found. the lessons you've learned through film,, how easy has that been to transfer those lessons or use those skills in your new role?

Jenny:

I think there's definitely, the technical element I think was the key transferable skill, understanding, the processes you need to go through for technical product development and understanding sort of how things work technically, the terms people use technically I think that allowed me to and how things are scheduled. From a technical perspective, so looking at a roadmap made sense from the onset. I think that was a skill that was very much transferable. I think the time management and project management skills were absolutely transferable. I'm not managing 300 people anymore, but there are, I'm still managing the time of our sort of executive team and, project managing getting work through the pipeline and out to various stakeholders or the executive committee. So that's been invaluable and I think they appreciate the, me keeping them on task and saying, right. Okay. Well, these, these are the deadlines we need to hit. These are the milestones. We need to be working to, et cetera, and, I think just being able to look at how things are set up. From a functional perspective, that was a big part of my role from where I've come from was just looking at operationally. A lot of the meetings we had, or the processes we were. Employing a lot of the communications tools, like, what are we using to communicate in amongst ourselves or report with in and amongst ourselves? How do we effectively use that time together? I've been doing quite a bit of that as well. So looking at their weekly meetings or monthly meetings, and changing the focus to say, okay, right. So, we need to be action space. Right? What are the points of action? Right? Who are owning those points of action? And right? Let's when we meet again, that's the 1st order of business is looking at the things that we said we were going to do. Where are we with them? What are our blockers? How can we solve those problems? I think problem solving is another one as well. Again, you come up against nonstop see if problems in visual effects, because there's so much so many people and so many sort of technical points of failure in visual effects that you just need to be able to creatively problem solve, it's right. Okay, well, that's not going to happen. But what can we do instead? Or. Is there a way around this problem or, who do we need to speak to in order to solve this problem? So there's a lot of that I think that was incredibly transferable and I think just people skills as well, being able to speak to people, again, in film, you often have to speak to people with gigantic egos you know, bless them. And, tricky people, very passionate creatives who are adamant that it needs to be 1 way. and sometimes, that's an impossible goal, or there's not enough money to achieve what it is that they're looking for. Being able to level with people or manage expectations being able to deal with difficult people on, I'm quite fearless in that. I have no problem speaking to. Whoever I guess I'm not scared to speak to big people.'cause ultimately at the end of the day, we're all people. And, I think when I approach them I'm cognizant of the fact that they're incredibly busy. I try and. Being direct and, but at the same time, giving them context so that they can make an effective decision. And then, understand the roots of communication in order to make that decision turn into action as well. So, I think that's something else, when you're managing large film teams, it's like, right. Okay. Our clients made this decision. How do we then. Focus 300 people, to achieving this goal this is now, what we're doing and this is the way that we need to be working. How do we turn the ship around in that respect?

Megan:

Yeah and I can imagine in film, especially in visual effects, but in film in general, and you talked about some of the really big hundreds of millions of dollar productions. So the pressure and the deadlines are just an another level, then you would probably face anywhere else. Yeah, so I can see that the skills you would have to learn to hone in the film industry would be so applicable.

Jenny:

Yeah. No I think people are people have been appreciative, I think, of the way that I communicate in the way that I work and that, it's okay, we are action oriented. We are action driven, right? What do we need to do to get this over the line? I think that's, people have been very appreciative that's what I come to the table with. I think that's that, that's the feedback I've gotten in the last few weeks. So, you know, it's good. Yeah, it's good.

Megan:

It can be quite scary to make a big industry change and it's quite brave that you did that. And it's just thinking, you were saying earlier of being made redundant. Was a blessing in disguise and actually I hear that from a lot of people of just having that time to evaluate and think through and instead of just like being taken along with the current, like that opportunity to stop and think about what you want to do. Do you think if you hadn't had that period of time, do you think you would have? Have the courage to make an industry change or is it what you thought might happen or

Jenny:

I'd like to say that I would, but I don't know that I would have I. I knew that I wasn't happy in the job that I was in but, I think, and even when I was made redundant, certainly the beginning of my search was very much focused on finding a job similar to that, that I was doing in visual effects. I think it wasn't until, and I, I met a lot of amazing people in that time. Everyone was really receptive, everyone. That I reached out to, for the most part, took the time to sit down with me, which was lovely and amazing. I think the general gist was that it was a difficult time for everyone, and everyone was going through a bit of a period of contraction. So I think it probably wasn't until I had all of those discussions that I knew that I, if I wanted to find something reasonably quickly, I would have to look elsewhere. But I think for me, I just wanted to make sure that it was the right thing and, and that I felt comfortable with the, the people that I would be working with. And again, I was lucky. I had a friend who was already working in the team that I'm in, but I met with the CPO who was absolutely wonderfully lovely, very nice. But very direct as well, she knew, she, she came prepared, knew the questions she wanted to ask me in the interview very much, but very warm at the same time. So to me, I think she was, perfect mix of the sort of doer, but the. Warm sort of kind, kindhearted spirit that I, I would want to work with. And I think I just, I had a really good rapport with her and that was what sealed the deal for me to a large extent. I think, just finding someone who I felt, that I would be working for that I, generally wanted to be working with, which was lovely.

Megan:

Yeah. It makes a big difference when you work with great people. Like, when you look back starting with Jenny, who wanted to be a princess, who was fighting dragons all the way through your career do you think there are any common threads or connections that you see when you do that kind of look back and reflection?

Jenny:

I think the common connection is meeting people. I'm who, you know, to a large extent, um, I think that's how I've ended up in a lot of the jobs that I'm in. It wasn't necessarily what I knew, although that absolutely helped. But it was who I knew to a large extent. And I would say that, from the moment you are ready to go into the work world. Networking is a really important thing. And just meeting interesting people, talking to interesting people, learning from interesting people and staying connected with interesting people is really important. So I think that's definitely a common thread is, often my jobs were who I knew not necessarily what I knew. But obviously. What I knew got me through the door, but who I knew got me the interview. What I knew got me through the door. I think just critical thinking project management action oriented think thinking is a common thread throughout my career. I think that's. That's definitely, something that I've had to use in all of the jobs that I've done. And, I think also the technical aspect is a common thread throughout my career and, not 1 that I would have ever thought that I would be in, I always thought, I thought of myself more of as a creative type but then, In the world of working with creatives, you see, just how creative other people are in comparison to you. So, you know, and the technical made more sense. Often technical, there's a right answer or a wrong answer, it's binary as they say. So that sort of came more easily to me in a way, understanding that came more easily

Megan:

creative side needs all that technical and structure and

Jenny:

Exactly they need. They need someone to rain on it. And that was very much me throughout the course of my career, like, right. Yes, absolutely. We need to change everything and start again, but we only have a week to do it. So, what can we realistically do in a week? Right. We'll, we'll put it in a priority order. Yeah. Tackle these things first and see where we end up.

Megan:

I'll level head in the room.

Jenny:

Yes, exactly. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. That's a great thought. But yes We need to be looking at the deadline here, which is in a week's time. And what else would I say is a common thread? People like, I think, I always really liked working with people. I think, don't get me wrong, I love to just put my headphones on and put my head down and just get on with it. But I think I also very much like the people aspect of it as well. Dealing with people and talking to people and, meaning interesting people. I'd say another common thread is don't take yourself too seriously. I don't think I've ever taken myself super seriously in any of the jobs I've ever done. I think I'm always like the, chuckles, the clown in the background, And, I think it's important to, to, I'm obviously I'm action oriented. I'm delivery oriented. I'm schedule oriented. But, I think. Take five minutes, have a laugh, lighten the mood. Even in the most sort of intense moments, take a second, sit back, have a laugh and then get on with it.

Megan:

What I always love about looking back is recognizing, how those things connected get you from one place to the next.

Jenny:

Yeah.

Megan:

In a similar vein, but is there any advice you wish you could go back in time and give your younger self when you were starting out?

Jenny:

Just relax, I think, and not relax in the sense don't do a good job or don't be diligent. But I think I was always just go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, like, work really hard, work really hard, work really hard, take everything so seriously and I think often it caused a lot of burnout. And I think just take better care of myself would have been something that I would have told myself when I was younger. I think I would have told myself when I was younger, ultimately that 1 little mistake won't really matter. So don't dwell on it. You can't fix it. It's done. So move on. Yeah, I think, take time for yourself. I think I would have told myself as a younger person. I do have a tendency or can't have the tendency to just be an absolute total workhorse, workaholic, just, pile it on and get more, more, more. But yeah, I think, I would have told my younger self to just relax and take it easy and take more time for myself.

Megan:

Yeah, that's good advice. And what's your vision for the future? What are you hoping for next?

Jenny:

That's a really good question. I don't actually know. I think I'm just enjoying the present really. I'm enjoying, I'm in a new job and New company and, I think I'm just getting comfortable with where I am. I think before I make a major plan for the future, I think that's the other thing I would have told my younger self really is that you don't have to look 20 years in the future and just be comfortable. We'll be happy with what you're doing now. Keep an eye on the prize. No question. But, you don't need it now. It'll come eventually. And when you're ready yeah, no, I think I'm, I'm just enjoying what I'm doing now. I'm enjoying having, a proper, 9 to 5 job, I mean, 9 to 6 sometimes, but, You know, not nine to nine or not nine to two.

Megan:

Yeah,

Jenny:

I'm very much enjoying the more balanced my life. It's funny. Like I'll finish at five 30 or five sometimes and be like looking around and what do I do? What do I do with all this time?

Megan:

Nice to be able to see you more often.

Jenny:

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And I can, yeah I have time to, clean my house, do some laundry, go to the gym, get my nails done see friends. It's wonderful. So I'm really enjoying that. And I'm, I, again, I'm really loving the team that I'm working with. I'm very lucky.

Megan:

Thank you very much. As I said off the top, you were one of the inspirations for the podcast, first of all, because obviously the movie industry, like film, seems so glamorous when you're not in it. And I knew you got your first role officially as a reception. And I was like, how does one go from reception into visual effects and being a producer? Yeah, so it was 1 of the things like, I was just really curious about, like, how do people get into the industries and careers there? And your story was 1 of the inspirations to me. And so I was.

Jenny:

I'm honored I mean, I'm not the only receptionist to climb the ladder. In visual effects, a woman called Fiona Walkinshaw, who I greatly admire, who's I think she's the, I don't know what her official title is now, but basically she runs the global visual effects department for Framestore, which is one of the visual biggest visual effects companies in the world. And I'm and certainly one of the most prestigious and she came from reception.

Megan:

Right. Yes. That's how to get in. If you're looking to get into film, it's one of the routes. Absolutely. Awesome. Thank you, Jenny. I really appreciate that you took the time and shared your story and and also the really great reflection and lessons as well. So Thank you for having

Jenny:

me. I thoroughly enjoyed this. And you are an inspiration that you are doing this for the younger generation. And I hope, by telling my story, I can help someone or, a few people maybe in, in trying to find their journey. Awesome. Thank you. All right. Thank you.

I think Jenny's story really demonstrates that often careers are built out of unexpected opportunities. And a willingness to take a chance, whether it was putting her hand up for roles early in her career or her openness to take opportunities in new cities and countries. My three takeaways from Jenny's story were, first of all, how important her network and relationships have been in her career journey. As she said herself, so often she heard about opportunities or got that first interview because of who she knew. Second, how she looked at opportunities in the context of her wider goals, whether negotiating an opportunity that allowed her to join a company and then create a path towards the role that she really wanted, or even taking a step backwards when it helped achieve something bigger like moving to London. And third, transferable skills. It can be really hard to see how you can change industries or roles, and there can be a lot of imposter syndrome around that. Especially when you spent so long in one industry like Jenny had. But when she was faced with an opportunity in a new industry, she was able to demonstrate that the skills she developed in the film industry were transferable and valuable to a different role in a different industry. And I'll leave you with Jenny's advice to her younger self. Don't take it all so seriously, and prioritize taking better care of yourself, and I think that's a great reminder for all of us. And I would love to leave you with a book recommendation. Check out Stand Out by Dori Clark. Thank you for listening to the unexpected career podcast, please follow, share and rate on your favorite podcast provider. The unexpected career podcast is produced, edited and hosted by me, Megan Dunford. See you next week.