The Unexpected Career Podcast

Lee Wood: Retail Sales to Police Officer

• Megan Dunford • Season 1 • Episode 8

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Season 1 Episode 8: After a changing retail market forced Lee out of a successful career in Sales he transitioned into a completely new career as a police officer in the UK and then in Canada.

Book recommendation from this week's episode: Hidden Potential by Adam Grant https://adamgrant.net/book/hidden-potential/

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Welcome to the unexpected career podcast, where we share stories of real people and the twists and turns they have taken along their career journey. I'm Megan Dunford. And as someone who found myself in the payments industry, largely by accident, I'm fascinated by how people's careers unfold and how they've gotten to where they are today. It's also why I am passionate about reducing the pressure on young people around going to university. What to take in school and on getting that right. First job My guest today is Lee Wood, who made a change in his career and went from a sales role into becoming a police officer.

Megan:

Thank you for doing this, first of all.

Lee:

Ah, no, thank you for having me. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. I didn't know what to expect with something like this and. I don't know whether my, my story will be interesting to people, who knows, but let's see, shall we?

Megan:

Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting, which is why I invited you on, so and I always like to start right from the beginning of when you were small, did you have an idea of what you wanted to be when you grew up?

Lee:

So, when I was small, I I wouldn't say that I had an idea of what I wanted to be. I knew I was always interested in, at the outdoors like a typical boy playing soldiers and playing in the woods and doing all those sorts of things. I remember I joined the army cadets and I thought, yeah, the army is what I wanted to do. And then that was just a phase, you know, you sort of move on to other things and other interests, but I've always, I've always wanted to do always interested in doing some outdoorsy type things. And sort of in school I was thinking about this, like my first sort of thoughts about a career path in school. I was thinking about, strange enough, to be an archaeologist. Oh. That's, that's what I wanted to be when I was in school. I'd see, you'd watch Indiana Jones, and you'd read the adventure of it all, and you'd think, yes, I get to travel the world, and I get to, explore cool things. And, and I didn't want, like, a nine to five job. I wanted something interesting. I failed at the first hurdle. Because my grades weren't the best at school, so even though I wanted to do archaeology, I sort of failed straight away because my grades weren't the best.

Megan:

So what did you do after, at the end of secondary school? Did you go on to university or did you go immediately into finding a job?

Lee:

So, while I, while I was at school, I had a part time job. I think from the age of about 16 onwards, I had a part time job, which was in like a retail store. I was like the, the warehouse helper, delivery person, helper, that sort of thing. But I stayed on, I stayed on at school and went to sixth form which is like a couple of years after. after school. So it's like, I don't know whether what the equivalent would be in Canada, maybe like a college or something. I don't know. Yeah, I think in

Megan:

Quebec, it's like they have the concept of CEGEP, which is similar, I think, to sixth form. But yeah, Ontario, I guess it would be like college.

Lee:

Okay. So yeah, so I did that for a couple of years. I did it mostly because I didn't think I was ready to sort of work and sort of fend for myself, if you like. And my friends did it too, so that was the sort of, that was the sort of motivation to do it. And the course I, I studied, I don't know whether it's something that they still teach now or whether it's still available, was a GNVQ, which is a general national vocational qualification in leisure, leisure and tourism. Now don't ask me what they taught me in that because I've been like racking my brain thinking what on earth did I learn in that, in that class? And not much to be honest with you. I spoke to some friends who went on the course. I'm like, can you just give me some ideas of what, what we learned on that course? It's just a blur because sixth form was like parties and, you know, going out with your friends and, and those sorts of things. So

Megan:

it wasn't necessarily the priority.

Lee:

No, and you know, I'm not the most academic person. I lack the sort of focus to sit down and read books or, or those sorts of things. I'd rather physically do it rather than just read about it. So, yeah, so that was that was what I did. Until I was 18 and then I left sixth form and went and worked in the States for a summer at a summer camp.

Megan:

Okay, cool. I didn't know you did that.

Lee:

Yeah, yeah. I worked in Massachusetts at a a Jewish summer camp. of all places, which was fantastic. It was a great experience. I tried to get some friends to come with me, but no one would. So I was like, well, stuff it. I'm just going to go and do it by myself. And yeah, it was a great experience. Yeah.

Megan:

And then what did you do when you came back to the UK after summer camp?

Lee:

So the job that I was doing before part time led to a full time position. It was in a electrical superstore, if you like. So they were selling like electrical goods, fridges, freezers, TVs, that sort of stuff. And I moved into sales in that role. And. You know, without trying to sort of blow my own trumpet, if you like, I was quite successful in, in that. I did that for, what was it, nine years. And you know, I enjoyed it. I was content doing it because I found it easy. I was good at it. And then the, the sort of internet took off. So less people were coming into the store, more people were buying things online. Yeah. And from then sort of business went downhill. I sort of got whispered that the business wasn't doing that well and potentially they're going to make redundancies. So it was at that point that I looked elsewhere and went for interviews at other places.

Megan:

So what happened then? Did you move on from that? Did you go in a different direction completely? Did you stay in retail?

Lee:

So I tried to stay in retail. I tried to stay in sales because it was what I was most comfortable with.

Megan:

Yeah, and you were good at it.

Lee:

Yeah, and I went for interviews and I'd never done an interview in my life before that. I'd always just Got a job, stayed in that job, and been a good worker, worked hard and never had the need to sort of look elsewhere or, you know, go for interviews. So going for interviews was completely, well, very scary because I didn't know what to expect on how to present myself and how to go about it. So they were unsuccessful so I was still working in, in retail. And then I remember speaking to a friend of mine who, his family were. police officers. And they said you know, maybe you should think about joining the police. I'm like, I don't know. I never really thought about joining the police. It was never really on my radar. It never really appealed to me. I never really thought that I'd get into the police in the first place. But I looked online. I tried to find a service that was closest to where we lived at the time. And the service, the service that was hiring at that particular time was Warwickshire police, which covers like Stratford and Warwick and Leamington. So I filled in the application online and then just basically just waited all the, all the while I was still working at or within the sales role. So things are sort of, sort of coming to an end in that position. And then finally got made redundant. I still haven't heard anything from the police. And I'm like, what do I do now? Cause I'd always worked. It was nine years. I was with Sarah at that particular point. You know, you gotta pay the rent, you gotta pay the bills. And I'm like, what am I gonna do? So again, more interviews, unsuccessful. And then finally I got a role working for a recruitment agency. They put me up, they gave me a, a position, like a temporary position working for a data entry for a, a government agency. So I did that for a few months. All the while waiting to hear back from the police. Finally I heard back from the police to go to the next steps. How long did it,

Megan:

how long was it before you heard back? It sounds like it was a long time. It

Lee:

was, it was a long time. It was, I'd say six to 12 months. Wow. The whole process.

Megan:

That must have been really nerve wracking.

Lee:

It was because I had no idea what, what I was going to do. Like my, my life had been sales. I had no idea. I had no other sort of career path, if you like. I had no idea what, what to do or how I was going to get a job. So then I went through all the process with the police, the interviews, the scenarios the fitness stuff as well. What I will, what I will say is that unbeknown to me, all the experience that I had in sales and all the things that come with face to face with people and speaking to people the conflict resolutions, you know, dealing with customer complaints, that type of stuff, that all put me on the right footing to join the police because they gave me all the skills that I needed to, to go through that process. So, Even though I felt bad at the time of losing a job, it was actually a good thing that that happened, because if I hadn't been pushed by being made redundant, then the chances are I probably wouldn't be here today and Talking about this, I'd still be in sales in some way, shape or form.

Megan:

Yeah, it's funny because redundancy, I hear that from a lot of people and having kind of gone through it myself recently, it is, it's not what you want. You definitely wouldn't ask for it. But then. It's sort of, for lack of a better term, like what you needed, it forces you to look at the world differently and look at other opportunities and what you might want to do instead.

Lee:

Exactly. I mean, it is, it is a push. It's the, like you said, it is forcing you to, to do something that is out of your comfort zone. You know, you have, there's nothing you can do about it. You're, you're in that position and you just got to get on with it, I suppose. But yeah, definitely. It definitely pushes you to, to sort of broaden your horizons, look at other things and consider other things. So, you know, I consider myself lucky in that respect that, that happened to me.

Megan:

And I had

Lee:

all that life experience beforehand. So I was 29 when I joined the police. So I'd had all that life experience that maybe I wouldn't have got if I'd have gone to university. But I think it just gave me the sort of foundations for a good career in what I'm doing now.

Megan:

And I think it's a good point of on paper, sales and police seem like very different careers. But actually the skills you learn in one are the foundations for the other. And so having that experience really made a difference and made. It's a role that, you know, you were probably more confident when you were going through all the assessments of Oh wait, I already have all these really amazing people skills, which is, you know, a huge part of being a police officer.

Lee:

Yeah. And that's one of the things that whenever I speak to new recruits, people coming through the process or want to get into the process and they're like 19, 20 years old. I'm like, yes, it would be nice to start a career. At that age and be able to retire at a young age after 30 years. But really, do you have the life skills that are going to see you through that career, you know, and, and prevent you. coming to harm yourself or somebody else coming to harm. Go out and get a job where you have to talk to people. Go out and get a job where you have to face some sort of conflicts, and you have to deal with angry people. And learn how to, if you want, negotiate with them, how to resolve conflicts. And anyone who, I would say, wants to join the police, go out and get a job in retail, go out and get a job in sales. And learn the basics of talking to people because like, I find that a lot of people nowadays can't talk to people because they're always on the phone or they're always this, that, and the other.

Megan:

For sure. Yeah, retail is one of the hardest jobs because you're face to face with people and you get, like you said, customer complaints

Lee:

yeah. And the nice thing about it was if you did a good job.

Megan:

Yeah,

Lee:

people would come back and ask for you. And that there was no better feeling than that, that you've got all these other guys in the store or running around trying to get the business. And then somebody walks in and goes, Oh, can I speak to Lee, please? I'm like, great, because I did them a good service. I, you know, and those sorts of things. So building those relationships with people. I think is important.

Megan:

Absolutely. So you went through the assessment with the police. Yes. And we're successful with that. So what's your journey been like since then? Are you still in the police force? What does that look like?

Lee:

So I stayed with Warwickshire police for about seven years. I worked in uniform with them. Prior to joining the police, I met my wife, Sarah, who is Canadian. And I went through the process. We always, we always thought about the opportunities of moving to Canada. And, you know, I think the opportunities here, there are more opportunities here, or there were at the time, than there were in the UK. So I went through initially through the process of getting a permanent residency. That was a long process. Took a couple of years to get that. And then the, the thought came up, well, why don't I look at applying to the police here in Canada? So I reached out to the local police service to where Sarah's family located and, you know, just sort of Ask them questions about the process and whether they accept people from other police services internationally. And they said they did, but I would have to go through the whole process again.

Megan:

Oh, wow.

Lee:

So, in order to become a police officer in Canada, First thing is you need to permanent residency. Second thing at the time they were doing this thing called ATS, which is like a, an external testing service where you'd, you have to go for a day and you have to go through written exams. You have to do right reports. You have to do your physical you have to do scenario based stuff all in one particular, on one particular day. So I had to do that again. So I had to go through that process. The first time I did it. I actually failed first time because I was, obviously I was already a police officer.

Megan:

So

Lee:

I was thinking when writing the reports as a police officer rather than somebody who wasn't a police officer, and I think that's what they were looking for. So I failed but I was able to reset it like six months later. So even though it was expensive coming back and forth between the UK and Canada, I came back and reset it and then applied to the service that I'm currently with.

Megan:

Amazing. Are you still in uniform? How has that changed?

Lee:

So, I've been policing now for, including my UK time, for 18 years. And my current role is I'm a detective constable in the Homicide Unit. I started off here in Canada in uniform again, on the road. And I always knew that I wanted to get into some sort of investigative field.

Megan:

Now,

Lee:

the nice thing about the police is that there are so many opportunities that are available, you know, this, depending on what your interests are, what it is you'd like to do. There are so many different avenues you can take to get into those positions. So my goal was to get into the homicide unit. That was what I wanted to do. So I began, as I said, in uniform, and then I moved into criminal investigations, which is more in depth investigations, but not the serious investigation. So I did that for five, five years. From there, I moved into the child abuse and sex assault unit. So I did that for another few years. It was, that was an interesting, interesting role and. You know, the main thing I take from that is the training you get in talking to people, especially kids, because that's completely different from talking to anybody else that you've ever met, you know, trying to get information from a five year old. I have difficulty enough trying to get information from my two kids. So, you know, it's certainly a skill. And then I applied to the homicide unit. And that's where I currently am.

Megan:

So to do those transitions, are there courses you need to do or additional assessments and training?

Lee:

Yeah, so whenever you get into a new position, there's always courses that come with that particular position. So when you first get into investigations, there are courses that teach you the basics of investigating crimes. Then when you progress, like, into the child abuse unit, then you get other courses that help you, deal with those types of investigations. But for each unit you go into, you have to apply and go through an interview process.

Megan:

Okay.

Lee:

So you, you know, other cops would apply for the same role and you go and you sit in a room and you would present your best examples of how you believe those examples. Show that you are capable of doing that particular job that you're applying for. And you present that in front of a panel of people. And then you have to do that for each, each time you apply for a new position. Yeah.

Megan:

So, yeah, so it is definitely like applying for each position and then you.

Lee:

Yeah. It's not. It's

Megan:

just part of that.

Lee:

Exactly. And it's, it's not like when you get to a certain stage in your career, you're automatically getting to that position. Yeah. It's, it's not like that. You, you have to apply and you have to show that, you know, you're capable of doing that and you've got the right KSAs or whatever they call it. I don't know.

Megan:

Yeah.

Lee:

The skills that you need.

Megan:

Sounds like your interview skills improved though since you have made all those changes.

Lee:

Yes, exactly. And you know what, that's, that's one of the things that the police has, has helped me get. That's right. Is. interviewing presenting myself, putting across you know, talking about yourself, if you like, because that's not, that's not a fun thing to do. I don't like talking about myself really. I find it very difficult to do that. But it's, you know, going through those processes, it's, it is all about. What you did not what the team did when really is the team, but you've got to say it's what you did

Megan:

for sure.

Lee:

Yeah.

Megan:

When you look back on your career, from today and looking all the way back to the beginning, your first job, do you see common threads or. How it all connects in retrospect. Sometimes when you are in it, you don't see how these things even go together. But when you look back, you can see all the connections and parallels and decisions and things like that.

Lee:

I think when I was in sales, if I hadn't been pushed to make other decisions, I would have just remained where I was but, you know, like I said, looking back, the skills that I learned from there allowed me to achieve what I've achieved today. And I've always been the sort of person who wants to, to have some sort of variety really in work. I don't really like just to sit in an office and, you know, do whatever. I'd rather be out there and physically doing something. So I, you know, I really do consider myself lucky to be in the position I'm in now. You know, life has pushed me in this direction and I'm just, I'm grateful for that to be honest.

Megan:

It's amazing. When you look forward, what's your vision or hope for the future?

Lee:

Well, as part of, well, as well as my current role in the homicide unit, I'm also a crisis negotiator. So I deal with people in crisis or kidnappings and those types of things. So what I would like to do. Moving forwards is be more involved in that type of thing. You know, I like the, the, the interviewing of people and talking to people. And eventually I think at the end of my career, what I'd like to do is to get into teaching, but teaching new recruits. Because I would hope that by that point, by the time my career comes to an end, that I've learned enough and experienced enough that I can at least share maybe the smallest thing with somebody that might help them in their career, not make stupid mistakes, you know, and so that they can enjoy a 30 year career with, without too many hiccups.

Megan:

Amazing. I mean, I could. Definitely see you being a good teacher and that's also a good way to bring together all the different experiences and skills at the end and give back in a way, which is pretty cool.

Lee:

And that's, that's, that's what I want. That's what I'd like to do. You know, I think that. Not just in policing, but just in life in general, that, I would hope that I can give some useful advice to kids, to new police officers that haven't had that life experience, they've come straight from college or university and got into policing you know, just to some common sense, if you like, I mean, that's lacking a lot in people, it's just common sense.

Megan:

Well, I think you kind of touched on it earlier, but sometimes that common sense, you learn that through your experiences. So when you're starting something right out of school, you just don't have enough experience to have all of that common sense. Exactly.

Lee:

Exactly. Yeah. And that's what they, they call it the university of life or something like that. You know, those are the things that you don't learn by sitting behind a desk and reading a book but you learn by making mistakes. And I encourage people to make mistakes, especially at WUR, because if you don't make a mistake, you're never going to learn. And that's, you know, I still make mistakes today and hopefully I only make the mistake once and I'll learn from it. But I think it's important for people to push themselves outside their comfort zone when they're doing things, because in my experience, it's never as bad as you actually think it's going to be. You know, when you stand up for the first time and you present in front of somebody, you're petrified because you think, Oh, my God, are they looking at my, the way I'm dressed or the way I talk, especially with me with having an accent here in Canada, that's always something that I'm conscious about is, are they looking at me like that because they haven't understood a single word that I've just said, or are they looking at me like that because I'm just talking complete rubbish or what is it? And, you know, it's never, I always find it's never as bad. When it comes to the end of it, as you thought it was going to be initially.

Megan:

Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's usually not as scary as you think it's going to be. And at the end you survived it. And so then. You have that even if it wasn't perfect, that experience and success of just having done it behind you and then you can just keep building on that and do it again.

Lee:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Megan:

Is there a piece of advice that you wish you could go back in time and give yourself?

Lee:

What advice would I give myself? It's a good question. Don't, I would say, I suppose, don't stress over things that are not in your control.

Megan:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Lee:

Because things happened, like being made redundant and things like that, and they're really, they're not in, in your control. So really your own worst enemy is, is yourself. If you get into that position where you're in, your mindset is like, that's it, I'm done, what am I going to do now to, to be able to pay the bills, that sort of stuff, then that's not, you're not going to achieve anything. So, yeah, that would be my advice is to. Not stress over those things that are not in your control because not much you can do about it.

Megan:

Good advice. I mean, it's easier said than done sometimes. It is. It

Lee:

is. I agree. I agree. I agree. And it takes a long time. Well, it feels like it takes a long time to get your mindset in that, in that place. You know, really, as long as you're focused on what you want to achieve at the end of the day, then You can achieve it.

Megan:

Amazing. Thank you. as I said off the top I think your journey is really interesting and you've had two careers really, and they don't look like they relate on paper. And so I was curious about that transition and how you made that and how you made those decisions, which is interesting in itself, but then also to just hear how actually they do really connect from a skillset and capability standpoint. That's really cool.

Lee:

Yeah, I mean, now you've said it like that, you know, when you sit, when I sit down and think about it, yeah, really, they, there was no real connection that you, that you initially think about from being in a retail environment, sales environment, and to being a police officer, but it proved that the skills, you know, you can learn skills anywhere, really, without you really realizing that you're learning them. And, you know, it'll put you in sort of good status as you move forward in your, in your career. Yeah.

Megan:

Yeah, I think it's another example to have your career could go one way, but then you can make a different decision and choose a different career like you're not stuck in one place. And maybe in your case, it was the redundancy that pushed you to make a different decision. But if you know someone else's in something and they're like, I'm not really loving this. Well, they can also make that decision and change careers as well. They can.

Lee:

And, and, you know, something like that, I would say is a lot more difficult because they're the ones that have to push themselves.

Megan:

Yeah.

Lee:

Where, for me, it was like, they're pushing me out the door and that's it, you're out on your own. So I think taking that first step and being sort of confident enough or strong enough to take that first step is, is difficult. Especially, even though you don't love the job, but it gives you everything you want, as in financial reward and, and being able to pay the bills. Exactly, yeah, it is. So I think, I think it is difficult for, people who are in that position. Even though they might not love the job to say to themselves, well, I want to try something different because you don't know what's on, you don't know what's on the other side of that door.

Megan:

Yeah, Well, thank you for coming on. Um, for someone who said you don't like talking about yourself. I really appreciate that. I've had

Lee:

to practice. I've had to practice this.

Megan:

I love it. I really appreciate you giving me time on your Sunday when you're got the weekend to yourself. So I appreciate you giving me some of that time and yeah, sharing your story. So thank you.

Lee:

Thank you, Megan.

I really enjoyed hearing Lee's career journey and when I was listening back, it struck me that he had found his calling, even though he hadn't really been looking for it. A few things that I took away from our conversation is that sometimes the thing you don't want, like a redundancy, is the push you actually need to consider what other opportunities there might be. And the importance of building life experience that help you learn to build relationships, handle difficult situations, and develop your common sense. There are some things that can't be discovered in a book and can only be learned through experience. And third, he demonstrated amazing resilience. Once he decided to pursue policing, it took a long time to hear back on whether he got into the program. And then when looking to move to Canada, he had to go through the whole process again. And although he failed the first time, he did the assessment a second time, and has continued to pursue new roles and expand his skills. Also, Lee's advice to not stress so much about the things outside your control is a key lesson. And by focusing on what is in your control, then you can find ways to achieve your goals. Lastly, as I often do, I'd love to leave a book recommendation. It's another one by Adam Grant, Hidden Potential. Thank you for listening to the unexpected career podcast, please follow, share and rate on your favorite podcast provider. The unexpected career podcast is produced, edited and hosted by me, Megan Dunford. See you next week.