Lisa Ardley-Price: Lawyer and Coach

S3E1: Lisa Ardley-Price had dreams of the stage, and ultimately became a lawyer in the Banking sector while also co-founding Channel Your Serenity, a holistic coaching business that blends coaching, mindfulness, and movement.

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Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Unexpected Career Podcast, where we share stories of real people and the twists and turns they have taken along their career journey. I am Megan Dunford, and as someone who found myself in the payments industry, largely by accident, I'm fascinated by how people's careers unfold and how they've gotten to where they are today. It's also why I'm passionate about reducing the pressure on young people, about going to university, what to take in school, and on getting that right first job My guest today is Lisa Arley Price. Lisa is a lawyer and coach and is the co-founder of Channel Your Serenity.

Lisa: 0:38

Hi. Hey, how

Megan: 0:39

are you? Hi, Lisa. I'm good. How are you?

Lisa: 0:42

Yeah, good. How have things been? Yeah,

Megan: 0:44

they're okay. I'm still in Canada. It extended my trip.

Lisa: 0:48

How are things with you? Yeah, things are good. It was lovely to, catch up with a bunch of the former chief ladies on, on Tuesday evening. Oh, nice.

Megan: 0:59

So I always start right at the beginning. When you were small, did you have an idea of what you wanted to be when you grew up? Did you have a dream career in mind?

Lisa: 1:09

That's such a good question to start off with when I was a kid I was very creative. I had a lot of different creative outlets. I was very involved in performing arts and music drama played instruments. So I think for me, at that stage I really wanted to go and do something that was focused on performing arts and ideally become an actress or something like that. And. Actually in some respects, I have drawn on that a lot in my professional life. It certainly stood me, in good stead when it comes to things like public speaking and having that confidence to speak up and have a voice, not just,, on a public stage or on a podcast. But also when it comes to speaking up in team meetings and expressing my views, my perspectives, and my ideas.

Megan: 1:57

Yeah, I love that. I think it's one of the reasons I like to start with that as a question is because. It does sort of say a lot in terms of just our natural interests, but also I think it's a good reminder of regardless of our experience, there are really things that we pull forward and have impact, even if we're maybe not. Thinking about it at the time. Based on what you said, it sounds like you didn't become an actress. So how did you then make decisions when it was time to, decide about going to university, did you go to university? How did you choose what to take if you did?

Lisa: 2:36

Yeah, part of it was, influenced by teachers and also my parents. They were always very encouraging and supportive of me, and they didn't set high expectations necessarily they wanted me to do well. Mm-hmm. I think above and beyond everything else my parents wanted me to be secure and they wanted me to have stability. They were of generation that was born into the second World War, so when I think about what their values. Would've been, it would've been making sure they had stability because they grew up without it. So when we did come to talk about what I was gonna go and do at university, at the time, I was quite keen to go and do something that was drama focused. I've been doing theater studies a level and I loved it and I was doing really well with it. But they pushed me more in the direction of going for something that was a bit more academic and said that, you know, you can continue to keep your drama and your theater as a hobby. And it's something that's still very important to me and spend a lot of time going around the West end seeing various things. Not so much on stage myself anymore, but certainly appreciating it. But it was with that then I thought what am the other subjects I'm doing? What are my other interests? I was doing English literature, I was doing history and languages. I was doing French. So that really led me towards the law because mm-hmm. I was very analytical and I was creative, bit of a problem solver. I liked having a challenge put in front of me and trying to find, a solution to it. And I thought if I go to university and study law, yeah, it's a really strong academic subject. Even if I decide not to pursue a career in the law, even if I decide that's not for me, it is a good subject that will have a lot of transferable skills that I'll be able to apply into kind of other lines of work.

Megan: 4:26

Amazing. So you took law in university. Did you decide then to pursue that as a career? What was your first job out of school?

Lisa: 4:37

Mm. So yes, I did do law at university, but actually I coupled it with French, so I kept my language, going. I was really keen to. Have another subject outside of law to pursue at university and I was keen to continue to build my French language skills. Important to me to be able to speak another language. I don't speak it nearly as fluently as I used to. I got quite good at it when I was at university because doing my law degree with French, it enabled me to go overseas for a year and study in Bordeaux. And actually just went back to Bordeaux in the summer with some friends to celebrate 20 years since we were there. Amazing. Yeah, quite a walk down memory lane, but also talking about how, we were taking these legal lectures and seminars all in French language and doing our assessments, our exams in French. I couldn't imagine doing that now, but, I probably could if I went back and I'd reignite that part of my brain again. So I did law with French at university because I wanted to continue my language skills.

Megan: 5:38

Mm-hmm.

Lisa: 5:39

And with that, I was also able to study a lot of other subjects, within the French component of my degree. So I got to study literature, but also French film. I got to look at politics and economics and for me. I've always thrived on variety. Mm-hmm. I like knowing about lots of different things. I did a strengths assessment recently and it showed that one of my top strengths is curiosity and love of learning. So those two things coupled together means that I just wanna know about everything. Yeah. Which is great. And then I also wanna share it with everyone as well, so. The first job that I had after university well, I had decided that I wanted to become a solicitor after having started out going to university, thinking I wanted to be a barrister. Mm-hmm. I made a pivot and a change to being a solicitor because I was more drawn to that. It felt like it would be less isolating and working at Barr's Chambers, I really enjoy being part of a team and working together with others and collaborating. Mm-hmm. And I thought I'd get more opportunity to do that as a solicitor. So I went to law school, did my legal practice course, and then from there started a training contract with an international law firm. And I didn't anticipate that I would end up becoming a banking lawyer, but that's what I did. so my first seat was in asset finance and. I really enjoyed it. I didn't expect to, I didn't really know what to expect, but I went in with an open mind and I just got involved in the various deals and transactions that I was doing and found that I had, a bit of a talent for. For transactional banking could be very organized, could be very diligent, conscientious. and I really enjoyed the negotiation aspect of the deals that we were doing. But that there was always this focus on, you know, we want to get to a mutually agreeable solution. We want to get the deal done. Everybody around this table wants to get the deal done because everybody wins as a result. Took me away from the contentious side of the law, actually, which is where I thought I was gonna start out. Initially as a barrister going into court and advocating for cases, I actually realized that I'm not that argumentative. I can formulate an argument if I need to, in a piece of advice or. When it comes to negotiation, but actually I don't wanna be in battle or in conflict with people. I want to be resolving matters. So that's where I ended up finding my sweet spot with banking and loved that it was international and I was learning so much, of different laws around the world, which, you know, again, love of learning. I really enjoyed. Seeing those differences and so the cultural differences as well actually. And then that'll bring us on to talking about some of the work I do in diversity, equity, and inclusion. But then I did another seat in trade finance and then ended up qualifying into trade finance actually, which is where the rest of my career has been spent for the last 15 years. So if. Four years in private practice, post qualification, doing international trade and commodity finance, and then moving into, an in-house legal team for large financial institution where I've specialized in trade and supply chain finance.

Megan: 8:36

Amazing. What I love about what you were saying of your journey is. some of the lessons along the way as you experience more and learn a bit more about yourself. But one of them, just going back to your degree that variety of things and getting to really with French, bring in the perspective that brings in so many different, subjects in a way, the political, the literature, movies and, language being a gateway to that through French. And then just how that kind of for lack of a better term, rounds out the more maybe technical, side of a degree. And then, obviously directly contributes to a role in an international organization. But also how, when you're young you have expectations of, thinking you maybe wanna be a barrister versus a solicitor. But. Learning about yourself and finding actually the collaborative nature of being a solicitor, being part of a team, working towards a goal together. It's not to say in a negotiation, it's always easy. Of course, it's still a negotiation, but people are looking to work together towards a goal. I think that's just. Fascinating in, in itself. I love all that and it's one of my questions later, but when you think back of, starting out wanting to be more in performance spaces. The first instinct wouldn't be to end up being in doing law in a banking situation. So maybe share a little bit about what you are doing now and that journey to get there. what kind of things led you along that journey to what you are doing now and and that process.

Lisa: 10:20

Yeah, so. As I mentioned, I spent four years post qualification working in different law firms. Mm-hmm. So I stayed with the firm that I trained at for a couple of years and I thought I should go and see what it's like somewhere else. So I moved actually to another very similar big international law firm that specialized in banking and finance. So actually the grass wasn't that different. Yeah. A lot of the same types of work, but working with some different people which was good. And it was nice for me to also challenge myself to move to a new environment, build up a reputation for myself in a new space. Got a couple of years experience there, which were, really instrumental in terms of building my foundation as a young lawyer and everything, I learned there. I've been able to take into my in-house career.

Megan: 11:04

But

Lisa: 11:05

I suppose what triggered the in-house career was a couple of different things. Firstly back in 2013 had a big life event, which was, I, very suddenly lost both of my parents in quick succession. Oh, wow. Yeah. And that was one of those pivotal life moments that is a bit of a wake up call and makes you ask like, am I doing what I want to be doing right now? And I think I was getting a huge amount out of my legal career, but also I, I was burning myself out at the same time. Mm-hmm. I was working incredibly long hours. I was sacrificing parts of my social life, my relationships and yeah, everything revolved around the office. So come in the morning, leave late at night, have to cancel plans with friends and look, I was learning and I was getting a lot from it, and I was getting to work on some incredible. Transactions and deals with some great clients. But it came a point where, when that happened and when I lost my parents, I just went, you know what? Life is short. And I think unless I see myself staying here long term

Megan: 12:05

mm-hmm.

Lisa: 12:06

And unless this is what I really, really want, I need to reevaluate and think about doing things differently. But before I made that kind of decision, I asked my then manager if I could do a client's secondment just for six months. Mm-hmm. Everything that happened rather than taking more compassionate leave, if I could go and just do something different, be in a different environment that might be good for me. And it definitely gave me something else to focus on, a new experience. I was learning, doing things differently. And I think in that. Learn that I felt best placed in that in-house environment where I was working within an organization. I felt closer to the business stakeholders that I was working with. I wasn't just a service provider. I was embedded, I was in there, I was working alongside them. Back to that point about teamwork and how much I enjoy that and collaborating with others I felt really integrated into that and really bought into what they were doing and helping'em to achieve that from a strategic business perspective. I thought actually really what I want to be doing is more of this, and coupled with the fact that the workload that I got in-house was so much more varied. Like no two days were the same. So whereas when I was in private practice, I might be working on, just one deal that would be all consuming or a couple of deals that would take up a lot of my focus. When I was in house, I could get anything thrown at me on any given day. And I would be taking queries from lots of different business areas on lots of different products. And I loved that. I loved that. No two days were the same. I loved that sense of variety. And so when I came back from that secondment coupled with what happened in my personal life, I thought actually I think the rest of my legal career, certainly for now. It needs to be moving in-house. And that's what I'd like to try now. So I looked for an in-house role, managed to secure one quite quickly and took that leap to just try something different and see where that led me. And 10 years later, I'm still working for the same financial institution, but actually the things that I've done since I've been there, I've got some tremendous legal work experience, but I've also managed to splinter off in lots of other directions as well at the same time.

Megan: 14:19

Our priorities do evolve, as we get older things happen in our lives. And I think taking the is such a good way, if that's an option, available to from a personal side, just to get in a new environment, a new Headspace, but really to experiment and try, is being in-house really the right solution? Is it a good place? So, it's amazing that you had the opportunity to do that, but also that you, actually took that step to take the time to experiment.'cause I think sometimes it feels easy to be like, oh, I just need to change everything. And I'm, and it might not have been the right thing. And it happened to work in this case and it turned out to be the right thing, but. Six months is a great way to experiment and learn for yourself of, you know, is this the right environment? And I can imagine just as you were talking about it, like you can really hear your strengths and values around curiosity and learning and how being in-house and know two days being the same really would speak to that. I'm glad that you found that kind of home and it sounds like a great fit if you're still there. But as you mentioned earlier in the conversation, there's a lot of other things you're involved in as well and not just. A lawyer within the bank. And you mentioned diversity, equity, and inclusion, how does that play into what you're doing now as well and are there some other things that you're involved in your role? If you're happy to share. Yeah, very happy to share,

Lisa: 15:54

I guess one of the. I would say downsides, but one of the differences probably in-house is that you tend to find there are flatter structures. So you move away from this ladder structure that you have in private practice where you go from being, you know, baby lawyer up to senior associate and to partner and equity partner, and you keep working your way up this ladder and this lockstep to suddenly that ladder being taken away and it doesn't really exist anymore. Mm-hmm. People don't seem to move around so much, or certainly not within my organization, which is a good thing because, it means that they like what they're doing and we know we've got a very happy team. But it does mean that the opportunities to progress upwards in the traditional sense where you mm-hmm. Take on a more senior role. Bigger teams, are fewer and further between. Which then means that, if you want to stay somewhere, and I have wanted to stay somewhere because I really enjoy the culture and the people that I work with, you have to look at different ways to develop yourself. Mm-hmm. So just like when I was in private practice and I asked to do a secondment, no one kind of just gifted that to me out of nowhere. I had to take some agency and say, this is what I want to do. And it wasn't guaranteed to get it, but you have to for these things. I have had to get out there and, ask for stuff and seek out opportunities that are gonna stretch me and develop me and help shape me into the lawyer, but the professional and the person that I want to be. So I've had two maternity leaves since I've been working in house. And both of those have, obviously been fantastic opportunities from a personal perspective to mm-hmm. Do something incredible from a life perspective and become a mother, which is probably, no un undoubtedly the best job that I have, but also the most challenging. But also give me some time to step away. From everything take stock and reassess where it is that I want to go next and how I want to grow. And they do provide a good opportunity to draw a bit of a blank canvas. So prior to both of my maternity leaves probably, had my agenda full of different tasks and projects and transactions that I was working on. And then you draw a complete blank slate when you come back in, you go, okay, I can start afresh now. And certainly after the second maternity leave, when I came back and at that point I'd been in the bank for five years or so, I thought, what can I do differently now? And where do I want to develop? And where I really wanted to develop was as a leader.

Megan: 18:24

Mm-hmm.

Lisa: 18:25

I also wanted to get more embedded in the wider organization. There is a tendency, especially when you're in a support function like legal is, you can be a little bit siloed within the business. And I've always, always been very. Good at getting to know my business really well, but I thought even beyond the area of the bank that I work in, like how can I get to know the wider organization? I think this will make me a better lawyer as well. Mm-hmm. Because I understand where I'm working and the first place I went for that was our employee networks. And this is where the diversity and equity inclusion piece comes in because I was very driven to do more meaningful work, have more impact on the workplace., I came back mid COVID. And obviously there was a huge focus on supporting people's mental health and wellbeing as it happened. One of the first things I did when I moved in-house and I got a bit of time back to myself, and this was pre-kids, back to that love of learning, I thought, what can I learn now? I got some time. I can do something different. And not just go out, socializing with my mates all the time. So I went and did some qualifications in fitness actually,'cause it's something that I was hugely passionate about. So I spent a lot of time exercising myself, going to the gym, training for marathons. That was a bit of an outlet for me that helped support me through, very high pressured environments. Mm-hmm. And some. Long nights in the office, it energized me and helped me pull back into myself physically, but also mentally. And so I thought, I wanna learn more about this. So I did that. And then when I came back to the office, mid COVID, I was like, here's an opportunity for me to bring these two worlds together a bit. And previously I'd been very quiet about it and I thought, oh, I don't want to talk about this in the office because people might think I'm unprofessional that it's a distraction from what I do day to day. Yeah. And then actually when everyone's saying what can we be doing more to foster connection between our teams to help our colleagues wellbeing during that maternity leave, I'd also gone and done my 200 hour yoga teach training. And I was like, well, I can help. And so started doing some online classes for colleagues. I did a whole course of meditation workshops. I did some yoga classes and started to just set myself apart a bit as someone that wasn't just a lawyer, but also mm-hmm. Had other strings to her bow that she could use to support colleagues. And then that led me into getting more involved with the employee networks.'cause I was doing work with our disability network. They'd asked me to do an accessible yoga class as part of a Blue Monday initiative that they were doing at the beginning of the year. And I was doing some work with our gender network and. We had a development program that we were running and they were looking for people to help coach and mentor on that. So I thought, I'll put my hand up, I'll support some junior colleagues. There were a few other opportunities that came up to trainers, a facilitator for various workshops to combat things like unconscious bias and. To help people build more skills in terms of self-advocacy and self-promotion, confidence. It's all of these things were leaning into a slightly different area for me as well, which was coach, mentor, facilitator, trainer, learning, coming back to that piece around learning and learning myself, but also then teaching others and also bringing people together. Identifying, the strengths of diversity. In the workplace, how to build a more inclusive workplace, what the benefits of that are, both for the individuals and the organization. And that became a bit of a journey that I went on taking on more and more roles and responsibilities in that space. Like extracurricular activities. Yeah. Outside of my day job. But also that were bringing a huge amount of value to the organization also back to my team in terms of how I was showing up as a manager and a colleague. And a couple of years ago I took on a role as global co-chair of our gender network, which has just been such a fantastic learning experience for me in terms of leadership, but also giving back. I was also fortuitous enough to be able to do a coaching qualification in the organization, which I now do internally and externally as well. And that kind of led me to. Together with a co-founder earlier this year than launching my own business, which Oh wow. Brings everything together. Yeah. In one holistic package. I've been trying to find the threads between everything for years and finally think I have which is coming together with my co-founders to develop a, holistic coaching business that brings together mind and body somatic practices like the yoga, meditation, breath work with practical coaching exercises to help people to find more alignment and purpose. In their lives. And so that is, the thing that I'm doing outside of the day job now as well, is building this business and this offering and ultimately this service to others to help them to feel better about what they're doing. Taking everything that I've experienced and almost using that as a way to fast track other people. I don't want people to have to go through what I went through in order to have that wake up call. They're gonna come to it. I want'em to come to it earlier. To realize sooner that actually, they can go after what they really want and they can design a life and a career that works for them. They don't have to be dictated to by, all these external influences, whether it's parents or teachers or tutors at university, or just kind of society, what their peers are doing. They get to be the agents and authors of their own lives.

Megan: 23:39

That's amazing, and I love that you, I mean it. In your own words, even you said we're able to find in this new business a way to bring all those threads together and that balance of obviously career and business and coaching there. But how do you support yourself mentally, physically, on that journey because even if you're pursuing your passion, it's a lot of work. And sometimes actually can even be more open to burnout. So bringing those two things together I think is really amazing. And there's something you said earlier as well of maybe in the beginning, being shy is the wrong word, but not wanting to bring that. Part of yourself to the office that you have the fitness coaching qualifications and things like that. But actually once you were brave enough to do that, it opens so many other doors. And, it's not easy to do. And sometimes, maybe you need to establish a bit of, reputation. In your day job first, but that I think is just a good argument or example of bringing more of yourself to your work, even if you're in a more, corporate environment, which is what, most people would think about working for a bank. And then just the other thing you said about, helping people learn from your experience and hopefully be able to not have to go through really challenging personal situations to, have that for lack of a better term, like wake up call of actually maybe I do want something different. Like start that process, earlier and not just, let society or friends or parents dictate that. And that's even something I'm hoping with this podcast of just demonstrating to people, everyone's career is different. It's not a straight line. And so you don't have to follow some prescribed path because it actually doesn't exist. Everyone's journey is unique. So lean into the things you like. So with this new business that you're doing on the side from your day job and how that brings together so many different threads when you look back and maybe in the context of this business, what are some of those common threads you've seen through your career and the different pieces that you see on reflection of looking back at your journey? I mean,

Lisa: 26:03

It's taking me back to that creativity and. I've always tried to maintain a bit of that in what I do. I think, lawyers got a bad reputation of being very left side of the brain. Mm-hmm. Equally what we know now, also with neurosciences, you can't really define the brain in those terms. Yeah. And. There's a lot of creativity in what we do as lawyers in terms of problem solving, but I suppose what this has now offered me is the opportunity to truly create something from scratch. Mm-hmm. With a co-founder. And that has been instrumental because I did, after I did my coaching qualifications set up my own coaching practice. I was finding it quite difficult to build on my own. And I still have kind of one-to-one clients through that. But having someone else to be accountable to. And to do it alongside, right back to this concept of teamwork. Having that person to collaborate with, to bounce ideas off of. And in due course, hopefully it won't just be the two of us. We'll have a team and we'll have other people because at the moment we are, founders and entrepreneurs that are doing everything. There's been a while journey learning so much along the way, but we are, learning about marketing and strategy and yeah, just it. It's so exciting. But also to your point, your brain never switches off. You never stop thinking about this stuff. And so you have to be really mindful of that. And so actually truly I have to practice everything that I preach to people through the business in terms of the programs, the workshops, the retreats that we run, which are encouraging people to slow down, to switch off, to set boundaries. I have to do all of that myself as well with respect to my own business. But it's so important. And so I think going back to Yes, the creativity and the creativity that I had as a child, I think, I'm really leaning into that again now in terms of creating something new. The teamwork and the collaboration has always been there throughout my career in terms of, I've always looked for those environments where I'm working with others, even in my day job now, I like the. The academic challenge and rigor of getting a tough, legal, technical question to answer and grapple with, that can be a lot of fun. But above and beyond anything else, what I really value now is working with people and doing the people management stuff and the coaching and helping people to perform better and reach their goals. So there's that. And then, the wellness angle. And I think that actually, you can't get people to perform without investing in their wellness and their wellbeing. And I saw that kind of firsthand when I was working really long hours and putting myself under a huge amount of stress and pressure. But also that has a ripple effect out into other people in your life. Like people that, yeah. You're having to let down or you're going home and not seeing your partner because you're getting back at a different time and you're like, ships in the night. And I, at that time, I didn't have children but I couldn't have necessarily seen, a way for me to make. Parenting work the way I wanted it to. Mm-hmm. There were no parents, people that are in high pressure jobs who are able to make it work. But for me personally, I just couldn't see a way to do it. So I think, everything that I'm trying to do now with the business as well is again, coming back to supporting people to have that space, to do that self-reflection. Identify, whether what they're doing is right for them, wrong for them, whether it needs to be tweaked or changed, whether the energy is going in the right direction. Because otherwise, the world we live in now is moving at such a fast pace. Yeah. And there are so many pressures on us, like increasingly so. Like with, technology is supposed to help us, not hinder us, but I feel at times that it does. We can become slaves to it, can't we? And we're available 24 hours a day on, on these devices, and we have the boundary set around it. Mm-hmm. Because otherwise there is no time to to look at yourself and realize, that you are not going quite in the direction you wanted to.

Megan: 30:02

Yeah, a hundred percent. Having that reflection time is so important. And not even just reflection time, but just empty time. Like that whole concept of your best ideas come in the shower or while you're on a walk. Just having some kind of empty time is so important to. Know if you are on the right path. Are you happy with where you're going or what you're doing? Technology sometimes makes it hard. To find that time. I a hundred percent agree with that. Continuing to look back and thinking about young Lisa who wanted to be an actor. What do you think 15-year-old or 16-year-old Lisa would think about what you're doing today?

Lisa: 30:46

Wow. I think, she'll think it's been an interesting journey with lots of unexpected twists and turns. But that's what this is all about, right? Unexpected careers. I don't think 15-year-old Lisa would've ever anticipated that she would've ended up working in a big financial institution. Certainly not when I was doing GCSE Math. And it was my toughest subject. I managed to do well at it, but it was always something that I really had to apply myself to. I had to work 10 times harder at my studies for maths than I did things like English and history, because I think I'm definitely more of a words person. so wouldn't have anticipated me working in a bank. And in terms of what I've gone on to do. Interestingly, I probably never thought of myself as being, a business founder. And I didn't necessarily think that was in my blood, although, my dad ran his own business. So actually it was role model to me. Mm-hmm. Even if I never thought that was necessarily available to me or something I was gonna do myself.'cause I always just thought I'm gonna become a professional. I'm gonna become a lawyer. And. To see that I've, been able to take agency of my career and do lots of different things and really, yeah, lean into what makes me unique and bring that identity, as you say, Megan, that actually, you don't have to do just one thing, like who made up that rule. Yeah. and increasingly we're seeing more and more people diversifying creating side hustles, whether that's like an Etsy shop creating, something. Wonderful. Um, in terms of a products or launching their own communities and networks or their own coaching practices, I mean, there's so many different things that people can do or people taking on like Ned roles and trustee positions and doing charity work outside of their day to day. And seeing how having that kind of more portfolio approach where you do have lots of different things going on in your life and lots of different creative outlets and avenues for learning and development and having an impact more broadly, not just within your organization but within your communities actually brings so much. To each of those different things, it's all transferrable. Like going back to your example around, the fitness teaching that I was doing, like taking myself into a fitness studio and standing up in front of a bunch of strangers and teaching them a fitness class, it actually was incredibly intimidating. At times, I'm having to really improvise in the moment because someone's doing something crazy that isn't what I've instructed, and they're about to hurt their themselves and put their back out, and I don't want an insurance claim. Yeah. And then the technology's not working and the speakers, I can't get to play the music and I need to deal with that in the moment as well as continue to keep the class going and that. Has taught me kind of flexibility and adaptability and how to keep calm in the moment. I remember one person saying to me at the time when I was practicing for my assessments and I was getting very stressed out about it all. She was like, this is a fitness class, not brain surgery. And I'm like, you're absolutely right, but how much pressure we put on ourselves, but how much that has taught me. And how much of that I've been able to bring into other parts of my life professionally and personally, just keep calm, carry on. Like actually don't sweat the small stuff and dropping the perfectionism, and this is something that's really in, in some respects on the one hand, helped me as a lawyer because. We are meant to get things right first time and find all the little details and mm-hmm. I spent a lot of time as a trainee lawyer, proofreading documents and checking grammar and spelling, et cetera. I mean, we have tech that can do that for us now, fortunately although even that doesn't always get it right the number of times I have to change my dictionary on my word, to remove all the Zs, but yeah, I think it also has held me back in some respects because the perfectionism can lead to procrastination. It can hold you back from doing things. And now leaning into the more entrepreneurial side of me, it is forcing me to confront that face on and go, actually, if I wanna bring something to the world, I've just gotta get it out there and test it and learn as I go. Yeah. And that's fascinating. And I'm taking so much of that into my day job as well because, working in a financial institution serving customers who are launching businesses and the founders and entrepreneurs. And so the fact that, I'm doing that myself as well, I'm really in the trenches too.

Megan: 35:04

Really puts you in a position to really understand your customers in a completely new way. Which is a perspective I hadn't even thought of, but I think that is. The thing of even the, that kind of concept of a portfolio career is you do learn so many different things that apply across the board. When you were telling that story of, teaching a fitness class and you needing to be flexible in the moment that's. The same as getting up and giving a presentation you are facing a lot of those exact same things or even, coaching a team member, et cetera. So, it's completely transferrable, whereas maybe on the surface it doesn't look like it relates at all. And the other thing. I like about this concept and that the world is allowing it a little bit more. It's becoming more normalized around, whether it's a side hustle or a full portfolio of things is, it can be really hard to get fulfillment. From one thing, your job might not answer all of your needs from a, whether it's creativity or structure or whatever it might be. And so there's ways to get, that from other things, whether again, hobbies or a side hustle or sharing your expertise in other ways. So yeah, I love that. And maybe you already covered it, but, is there a piece of advice you would love to go back in time and give yourself?

Lisa: 36:30

Yeah, and it is, it's something that I say a lot now to younger people that come into the workplace. So people that are mentoring grads that are coming in and it's be yourself and, mm-hmm. That can feel really hard, especially when you know you're fresh and coming straight into, a workplace. You think I've gotta fit in, I've gotta look like everyone else. But actually, in the world that we operate in now, more than ever, it's really important that you come in and you are different and you are unique and you share your own perspective and ideas because, innovation is absolutely fundamental to the success of businesses these days. Everything is changing so fast with technology, with ai, and we have to learn to be able to do things differently and you're not gonna be do able to do that if you've got a group of people that all think the same way and act the same way. So you coming in and being unique and bringing a fresh perspective and having creative ideas. Maybe some of them are off the wall, but maybe they need to be. Yeah. So don't be afraid to come in to be yourself, to share your ideas. To be that fresh pair of eyes and that different voice in the room because if there's one thing you can be sure of, it's that there's only one of you and no one else will think exactly the same way as you. And that is where your value is.

Megan: 37:51

That's such great advice. And yeah, it is hard when you're young, but as you said, that's where innovation comes from. You need different perspectives, different ways of thinking. To look at things in a new way and see where the opportunity is or what crazy idea actually is gonna fundamentally improve something or bring that exciting new, idea, concept, process, technology, whatever it might be. That's where they come from. So yeah. That's great advice. So obviously most of this conversation was kind of a look back, but if we flip it and look forward, what's your vision for the future? What are you hoping for? What are you excited about? Could be short term or long term. You have a lot of things on the go, so

Lisa: 38:38

I do. I probably want to simplify that a little bit because there is a lot to juggle. But. I think continuously finding the threads between the things that's the way to simplify. It's not necessarily doing less, but it's doing it smarter. And I think really, yeah it's hard to look ahead and predict like where I'll be in 10 years time. it's hard to predict where I'll be in a year's time. I think it's difficult for any of us to do that, especially in the world that we live in now. I certainly couldn't have, 10 years ago predicted that I'd be doing what I'm doing now. So rather than focusing too much on, something, very granular, I would say just continuously doing what lights me up, continuously leaning into the spaces where I feel like I'm making a difference, that I'm having impact, that I'm in service to others. That fundamentally is the most important thing to me. Whether it is, giving great legal advice and helping my business stakeholders to get a transaction done, or whether it's, doing a coaching session with someone and helping them to reach their goals by unlocking their potential and getting them to think differently or give them the confidence that they need to go out there and go after the next thing, or whether it's running retreats and giving people that time to themselves to pause, to reflect, to reconnect themselves and realign. Being of service and ensuring that I am taking everything that I've learned and continue to learn that continuous learning and improvement for myself as well and sharing it with others because certainly not wanting to keep this stuff to myself.

Megan: 40:07

Amazing. And I think, that's such a great way to look at the future and I've had many of these conversations now and that is something I have learned from, doing this podcast and having these conversations is when you do lean into the things that light you up it doesn't steer you wrong. So I love that as a perspective and way of thinking about the future and prioritizing.'cause as to your point it's impossible to know exactly what things will look like in 10 years, or a year even. So that's amazing. Thank you so much, Lisa. I love this conversation. I think your journey's really interesting. I love how you've been able to find a way to bring all those threads together and, not only continue your own learning and curiosity and finding ways to lean into that, but also then share that with other people. I think that's inspiring and amazing and I love your journey to getting there. So thank you so much for sharing. Thank you, Megan. It's been lovely to have this conversation with you today.

41:06

I enjoyed this conversation so much, and a few things I took from Lisa's journey were one, take ownership at several points. Through Lisa's journey, she has been intentional in taking ownership of the direction of her career from pursuing a secondment while at the law firm to explore if in-house was a good fit for her next step, to finding ways to get more involved in the wider business. After her second maternity leave. Two, the power of a portfolio career. Lisa was able to supplement her desire for continuous learning by pursuing training and side projects from fitness instruction to coaching, which not only helps keep her fulfilled, but has provided skills that are valuable across all aspects of her life. Three, giving back. Lisa shares all the lessons she's gained through training and life experience within her organization as co-chair of the gender network, but also as a co-founder of a business that delivers a holistic approach to coaching. Leaning into your values and what lights you up will never steer you wrong. Finally, Lisa's advice to be yourself is not always easy, but is so important in her own journey. When she was brave enough to bring her expertise and fitness and wellness into her corporate job, it opened up new opportunities. And as she said, at the end of the day, there is only one you. Thank you for listening to the unexpected career podcast, please follow, share and rate on your favorite podcast provider. The unexpected career podcast is produced, edited and hosted by me, Megan Dunford. See you next week.