The Unexpected Career Podcast

Mary Kemp: Nurse to AI Consultant

• Megan Dunford • Season 3 • Episode 9

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 Mary Kemp, started her career as a nurse and is now the co-founder of AI Potential which helps business leaders create a culture of high performance with AI.

https://simplerwith.ai/

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Welcome to the Unexpected Career Podcast, where we share stories of real people and the twists and turns they have taken along their career journey. I am Megan Dunford, and as someone who found myself in the payments industry, largely by accident. I'm fascinated by people's careers unfold and how they've gotten to where they are today. It's also why I'm passionate about reducing the pressure on young people about going to university, what to take in school, and on getting that right first job. Today I'm speaking with Mary Kemp, whose first career was as a nurse and is now the co-founder of AI Potential that helps business leaders create a culture of high performance with ai.

Mary:

Hi Megan.

Megan:

Hi, Mary, how are you?

Mary:

I am good. Your background is better than mine. Is this okay for you?

Megan:

That's all good. Perfect. First of all, thank you so much for doing this. I think. Your journey is so fascinating and touches on so many different things that on the surface don't look like they have anything to do with each other. So yeah, so I'm really interested into digging into that and understanding the journey and how it does all fit together.'cause I think generally things always do in their own unique way, which is what I love about the podcast and getting to talk to people about their journeys. I always start right from the very beginning. So when you were a small child is there something you wanted to be when you grew up? Did you kind of have an idea or dream? You know, when you were small?

Mary:

Yeah, I did. And, I didn't really dream big to be fair. I grew up on a farm in New Zealand. My mom was a type of nurse that no one outside of New Zealand would've had. I've called a Ani nurse, which specialized in children and I worship my mom. So I liked the idea of that. Yeah. And then when I was six I had. Randomly appendicitis and had to go in for emergency surgery. It was all fine. But it was a small country hospital and I was quite a, I think then quite acute, well-behaved kid. And so all of the nurses doted on me and I can remember them dressing me up and doing all sorts of stuff. So I, at that point, I thought with my mom and them, I thought nurses are fantastic. And from then on that was all I ever wanted to be. So that was my mission really at that point. I think I fixated on that as a child. I was like, yes, that's exactly what I wanna do.

Megan:

Amazing. I find the word fixate. Interesting. So if you were very focused and fixated on that, is that, the path you went down when it was time to make decisions about what to take next in life after school? Is nursing something you pursued? Is that a career you pursued?

Mary:

It is interesting actually. my parents took me out of school when I was 16 to go traveling.

Megan:

Amazing.

Mary:

Which meant because I'd done pretty well in my exams but then I crashed and banned. Obviously this is pre-internet. Mm-hmm. So there was no way I could keep up with my exams and I didn't like failing things. I'm not used to it. So in my last year of school, I actually didn't complete the year. I actually am a high school dropout. Oh,

Megan:

wow.

Mary:

I never finished my year. I left school and got a job the next day as a like a carer, nursing carer at our local geriatric hospital.'cause I thought, okay, so if I don't have the grades to get into nursing school, I can certainly have the experience and, knock on their door really loudly. So that's what I did. I worked for, nearly a full year. Getting that experience, saving money and then they had to really prove that I could handle the nursing course.'cause of course they would've seen my results from the last two years of school. The school that I wanted to get into accepted me. Wow. And, and I got my degree. And I was lucky actually because at that time there was way too many nurses, lots of people would study and then there'd be working retail jobs or things like that. Mm-hmm. So the local hospital to me had I think something like 120 applicants for 10 new roles. Oh, wow. So I think I was more excited about getting that job than I was about passing. So that was, I really enjoyed that. And then I quickly realized that I probably hadn't thought through my career choice and. The issue with that is that I loved looking after people. Mm-hmm. And helping them and solving their problems. But what I very quickly realized is that there was really no progression path for me. So there were people on the ward that were brilliant and amazing and were nurse practitioners, and they were in their fifties and sixties. However, there were still doing exactly the same work. There really wasn't a lot of space for, and I realized. My dad's quite entrepreneurial, so I realized I had a bit of that going on.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Mary:

And I just couldn't see the next 40 years of my career doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same place. Yeah. So that was interesting.

Megan:

There's a couple things that I love about that. First of all, even though you didn't finish high school, you still found a way. And I think that is something just in general, it feels like doors are closed, but there can be other ways, whether it's opening a window, whatever metaphor you wanna use, like prying it open with a co bar. There can be other paths. It doesn't obviously work in all cases and sometimes, you might have had to go back and get that diploma. But I love that, that you looked at other options and said, you know, I'm not gonna let go of that. But also. The flip side of that is we don't always know what we're choosing. And the actual day-to-day work of it might've been amazing. And as you said, you really loved the caring aspect of it. But there can be other parts of our personality, that ambition or desire to learn, that maybe don't get fulfilled. And it's different for everyone and you don't know until you're in it. Sometimes. So yeah, I think that's really interesting.

Mary:

Yeah, so nursing was a good choice. It gave me a lot of, skills and it's a fantastic thing to go traveling with. So that's what I did. I went traveling with nursing and lived for a year in Hong Kong. Lived for a year in Paris. And went privately, for families there. And then came to the uk and then that was almost like, I am, footloose and fancy free and I can do whatever I want. And then I was like, okay, so now I need to get serious. What am I going to do? And at that point I'd heard a lot of people, or I knew some people that had gone into pharmaceutical sales and I thought maybe I can still use my experience. And I love, I'm a bit of a. Sometimes I sound like I've eaten an encyclopedia for breakfast. So I love that I'm a bit of a science geek now, so it gave me a real opportunity to dive into the data and build upon that understanding I already had. So it didn't feel like it was all wasted. It felt like I was growing and on a pathway. And so I was lucky there. I can remember so funny feeling sorry for myself and just going, oh, won't someone just give me a job and then realize I hadn't applied for any. Yeah. So, you know, that kind of, so, so then, I got a job and I was lucky I was a German company and, they don't want anyone to have any experience. They want to teach you in their own method. So it was a perfect fit. They were small, they took really good care of us. I couldn't believe it. I turned up on my first day and they hand me the keys to a car and I was like, woo, I've made it. And so, yes, and they give really good training. It's all about, It's relational, it's building trust, it's all of that kind of thing. So it gave me an incredibly good grounding in that area.

Megan:

Yeah. And an amazing way to build on your skills, as you were saying as well, because obviously you have knowledge of the medical community with your nursing experience but also that building trust, and that's a huge part of being a nurse and looking after people. So amazing transferable. I also love how. Use nursing to travel the world a little bit as well. Because it's a universal skill and it's a universal role and there aren't a lot of them out there that you can just apply in any country. Obviously, it can be a little bit different in each country, but it is one of those roles that everywhere has and has some level of need for. So I think that's really cool. So you're now in pharmaceutical sales and amazing opportunity to really learn it from the ground. How did you like that? How long did you stay in that what's the journey?

Mary:

Yeah, I really liked that. Really lovely people. You felt a little bit like you're not on the cutting edge and definitely not compared to ai, but that you got a glimpse on the inside on what was happening.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Mary:

And the upsides and downsides of it. So realizing how they play with data and statistics are malleable, all of that kind of thing. Yeah. really, really interesting. It was a really exciting time actually. And then I, met my husband who's now my business partner and we are starting to have a family and at that point I think there's a lot of women I meet. That when they're starting to have their family, suddenly the entrepreneurial spirit kicks in.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Mary:

And actually I thought, I don't want to be on the road the whole time. And, Gareth, my other half is really, he was working in a similar industry, and was sponsored to do an MBA. at that point we both realized we wanted to go out on our own path and actually leave employment just as we're having children and set up our own business. And so that's what we did. We didn't burn bridges or anything, but we're like, okay, so we've gotta make this work. We're gonna work together. This is how it's gonna go. And so we built our business from there. So at that point we were more of a digital marketing agency. But over time it transitioned into being. More specific and bigger. We realized when we spoke to businesses, they would always say, we want more customers. Yeah, AKA, we want more leads. And as soon as you look below the hood, you realize that they don't need more leads. They need more of the system. So you don't wanna put more leads into a leaky bucket. most businesses don't need more leads. They need more conversions. and actually what we found with these businesses as we started to work with them, that it was business development. That there was no story, nothing was lined up. And if we could fix that, then that would flow. And so that's what we did for about 15, 20 years.

Megan:

Wow.

Mary:

We, were working with large or large corporate America, working, for some of our clients for years, helping them. Get everything, get their ducks in a row. And because of that, they were able to bring on big clients like Spotify and Etsy and things like that. So we had some real fun doing that. we are very collaborative and very collaborative. It's all about trust and relationships for me. And I think if you are wired that way, it flows through everything you do. So yeah, definitely flows through everything I do. So, yeah, we had a great time working with those businesses. Learned a huge amount and, yeah, really loved the work we were doing.

Megan:

That's amazing. And to your point, as people start to have kids, your needs and your priorities shift a little bit. That flexibility of being an entrepreneur, not that it's less work because it isn't, and I think sometimes people make that mistake of, oh, I'll have more free time. You might not, but you have more control over your schedule and when you do things and being there for pickup and things like that. So that flexibility, I can see how, of course mothers, but fathers as well. Maybe get inspired by entrepreneurship as they're starting a family, but also really incredible that you did it with your husband. Not everyone can work with their partner and build something while building a family. that's a lot of, for lack of a better term, like potentially chaos to navigate together. Yes.

Mary:

Yeah, we were crazy. It did work. I think we both bring slightly different skills to it. As we grew and had a team working with us, that kind of takes a lot of the pressure off as well. Mm-hmm. But. I think the real advantage and that we've got language for it now is emergent thinking. So what would happen is that even in our, so often, in your downtime, so the way that creativity goes is you stop thinking about stuff. You relax, you go for a walk, you chase the dogs, you do whatever you're gonna do, and suddenly these ideas pop into your brain. And so for us. That would often happen. we're together most of the time. Mm-hmm. So, you know, we would have these little, oh, what about this? Have you thought about that? And one person would build upon the other. So actually it enabled us to grow quite quickly. And I think, discover what our secret sauce was. Gareth will always make a joke that he comes up with an idea and I make it better. So we feed off each other and I think if you can do that, because we're kind of doing that 24 7. Yeah. It gives us an an additional advantage, you know, and for all businesses and whatever you go, you have to have trust. Well, there's a lot of trust there. It's, it is not your standard business setup.

Megan:

Yeah, for sure. And I think what you're saying too about building on it together would be such a competitive advantage. As you said, we often have our best ideas like. Walking the dog or people say in the shower or what have you, but sometimes you lose them'cause you are doing this other thing and you don't have necessarily the opportunity to write it down or so you might remember pieces of it but not the whole thing. And that opportunity to say it out loud to someone in the moment and then immediately be building on it is really powerful.

Mary:

Yeah. And we could push each other in a way that you wouldn't normally do. It'll be like, no, come on, you've gotta do this or be accountable and things. So, a slightly different dynamic, I think, which everything has upsides and downsides.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Mary:

But I think the upsides definitely played out for us.

Megan:

That's amazing. And so you said you were doing that for 15, 20 years and, really enjoyed working with those companies. Is that something you're still doing or are you doing something now? Has it evolved? We're

Mary:

doing something else now. It's so funny how you end up in these places. I think. there's that Jim Carey movie where he just says yes.

Megan:

Yeah.

Mary:

And I think that's what I've been doing a lot of, so. About two and a half years ago now there was a big piece of work we used to do for these clients, an ideal client persona. Mm-hmm. You know, avatar mapping. It would take the team four to six weeks, we'd have to speak to real people and everything. And then we spend a huge amount of time creating this big story about this. Perfect client, but if you did that well, it feeds through everything and brings on these bigger clients. And so we wondered, I wonder if AI can help and I'd already, we'd already been using chat and things in,'cause it had come out in September, October, September, the year before.

Megan:

Yeah.

Mary:

And so we paid. With ai and it was able to do that piece of work in an hour. Wow. And it was, yeah, which was scary enough. But, I hate admitting this, but it was better than us.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Mary:

So at that point we thought, okay, what are we gonna do? So we felt quite sorry for ourselves, said quite a few swear words. And then thought we have a choice now we can just wait to be disrupted. Mm-hmm. Or we can pivot and navigate it and help others navigate it too. And actually one of our kind of bigger clients that we worked with long term was, specialists and leadership development. and as part of my nursing and everything, I've got that kind of coaching background as well. So I was like, well, that would've been me in my happy place. Yeah. So we pivoted pretty much overnight, signed off with our last American contract on October the 15th, 2023. And I don't think we had any idea what we were biting off, and we absolutely did not realize how far ahead of the market we were. But we just went for it. And and that's what we've been doing ever since. So just like any small company, we were working with micro solopreneurs in the beginning. We thought that our long-term American clients will come with us. They are still in the process of coming with us. The larger the organization, the. Agility.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Mary:

and so we cut our teeth. Now we were, we hadn't embedded ourselves in our local business community at all. So we had to really quickly throw ourselves in here. And it's really funny in Brighton, it's sweet. Now they call me AI Mary. So that's obviously, and there's a lovely community here and they're so supportive. And so now over time we have got more focused on what we're doing. We're now working with larger clients, we're looking at investment. It's been a crazy AI journey and I could never at the beginning of my career have ever imagined that this is where it would be.

Megan:

Yeah, on paper it's so far from nursing and I love that you saw a threat, instead of waiting for it to come, you pivoted and said, actually, we're gonna turn the threat into an opportunity. That's quite hard to do and scary to do, so That's amazing. And also how, in a way, of course large organizations Steering that ship. It takes a long time for them to change direction. And AI is, certainly on their strategies, but actually doing it and implementing it takes quite a long time'cause they're so large. In a way I imagine that must be a bit of an advantage, although difficult it is because you get to learn and prove all your concepts with small companies who would be in it with you a little bit.

Mary:

Yeah, it's really lovely because it is an advantage that we come from outside tech. because people think AI is tech and it's not. There is no tech. It is just language. So it's a people problem, not a tech problem. Yeah. And we don't speak jargon. And we come from a commercial background, so forget about ai. What are the problems in your business? What is the best tool to solve them? And if AI is it great, but it's not a magic wand. Yeah. It's not gonna immediately transform everything. It's a lot harder than businesses think. It's a skill, not a tool. And so. And the larger the organization, the longer the transformation. So we now focus and it's so funny'cause I think I'm a bit of a maverick, where in that you wouldn't want me writing code or anything like that. That's not my strength. But our focus is on regulated markets. So health, legal, financial,'cause they've got a much steeper hill to climb.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Mary:

there are so many different things they need to think about. They're usually quite traditional, so this is really a huge opportunity for them. And rightly so, scares them. They need a trusted partner that will just help them navigate it so they actually do see the results and not the downsides.

Megan:

A hundred percent. Like in those regulated industries, there's so many. Regulations like around privacy and data protection and rightfully so. And AI is kind of a scary black box of that. Mm-hmm. Because it does involve so much data to be able to make it work. So how do you do that in a secure way? But then the other thing is also being focused on actual problems and solutions rather than AI as a buzzword and Oh yeah. We're, Powered by ai, or we're looking at ai, it's just the wrong direction to be looking at it. It's like, what's that expression of a hammer looking for a nail? That can be, if you know it's AI that's on your strategy, that's the situation instead of actually what problems are we trying to solve? Yeah, I love what you said about it's about people. It's about, it's a language versus a technology tool.

Mary:

It's really interesting and I think, we're only just seeing now what it's going to unlock. And yes, there will be massive disruption. However, you can't get off the AI train. Mm-hmm. So we've all just got to individually figure out our own way of navigating it.

Megan:

Yeah, for sure. And like I just speaking for myself, I've been a bit slow on AI and in the last few weeks I've been using it, but asking questions of it the way I would ask someone on my team or another person. Yeah. And you get better output. And it's like, okay, it's just like a virtual person basically. And have the conversation and give it feedback and it'll keep iterating just like a person would. I

Mary:

love that virtual person thing. If you hear me using it, I might attribute it to you the first time, but then I'll just absorb it. You

Megan:

Yeah,

Mary:

it's your, we did talk about that, but that language, you're right. It is just your virtual person, a virtual team member.

Megan:

Yeah, a hundred percent. So when you look back on this journey, which on paper doesn't necessarily look like it connects, what are those common threads that you see when you look back on this kind of winding road?

Mary:

So I think I would've wanted to go back to my 16-year-old self and say it's all gonna be okay. So it is interesting. I was, with a friend last night and spent time with her 13-year-old daughter, and I was, and it really, and I knew we would be speaking today and it was really interesting because she's very smart. Very driven, athletic a great kid. She's struggling at school and that's not because she's not smart, that's because some people that kind of, that environment just isn't the best fit for them.

Megan:

Yeah. It's a structure that doesn't work for everyone.

Mary:

So I think it's this, you know, there's no question that she's gonna go on to thrive. However, she's feeling less than at the moment because she's not thriving in the structure that she is now. Mm-hmm. And so I was just trying to not be that annoying adult, trying to find a little way to let her know it'll be okay. You know? So I told her I didn't finish school and that kind of thing just to,'cause I think at that age, being part of the crowd is so important. And you feel like those exams. everything if you don't do well in those, life is over. And actually that is not how life is. There's so many opportunities out there, you just need to decide, you know? So what I would say to myself is, what is really important to you do that? And if that, and I think you said it really well, we are not good at recognizing transferable skills.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Mary:

So, nursing, okay, so you're problem solving, you're having to diagnose, you're having to manage, you're having, there's so many skills in that that you can pick up and apply anywhere, and I think we're really bad at recognizing that. And I definitely did not recognize that, but I'm still using those skills now. Mm-hmm. so I think. Being kinder to myself, and being kinder to ourselves and just thinking, there is always a way.

Megan:

Yeah. I think that's a really good point. And recognizing transferable skills is so difficult. We feel boxed in, in whatever job or industry we're in and it feels difficult to Make a jump or a step, but what you said about focusing on what's important right now. What's interesting right now, just lean into the things that are interesting that you might be curious about, that you enjoy and if you keep doing that, like the path might not be straight and most people's aren't, which is why I love the podcast and why I wanted to start it, but also what you were saying about that conversation with your friend's, 13-year-old, that pressure that kids feel. Some of that is being in the crowd, but it's also media. Sometimes it's parents you need to get good grades, you need to get into the best university. You need to get a practical degree that's gonna lead to a role at the end. And I know very few people's careers who end up that way. And even the people who follow that path initially, sometimes they end up in that role and they're like, oh God, I hate this. So. You can do all the right things, so to speak, and still, not end up summary like, and so you're going to change and evolve anyway. And that, yeah. So there's so much in there that, yeah, a hundred percent.

Mary:

Agree with. No, I completely agree with you. It is, are you smiling? So my thing was always, if I enjoy what I'm doing, half the time I'm good because there's always gonna be bits of what you do that that are boring or repetitive or that you would have to hand off. But if most of the time you're like, actually that was, I really liked that, or that was, or I learned something.

Megan:

Mm-hmm.

Mary:

And. That's fine and it's okay to change. It's okay. You know that sunk cost fallacy. I've done this, I've done all this training. I don't wanna waste it. Is that gonna make you happy when you wake up tomorrow?

Megan:

Yeah, absolutely. And you touched on the advice you would give your younger self, but what do you think that 16-year-old version of you would think about what you're doing today and where you are today?

Mary:

She would tell me I'm crazy. Oh. So I'm talking to you now and I love, public speaking now. I love, going and sharing and telling as many people as I can, the things that will unlock them with ai. Particularly women.'cause I really want them to lean into this and not sit back and because it's not tech. But so as a kid I hated it. Oh my goodness. We had a speech competition every year at school. I wouldn't sleep for the nights before it. I dunno what possessed me to join a debating team. I think I thought it might cure me of it. Well, it cued me of something. I froze. I was like, it was a competing school. I was about 16 and I literally stood there with my cards for like a minute as if the world had stopped, didn't say anything. And then, just started again. Like nothing had ever happened. My biggest fear and it's not anymore. So, that 16-year-old would be like, okay, this is a bit weird, but go you,

Megan:

I love that. And AI obviously didn't even exist when we were young, so just that is beyond what any of us could have imagined.

Mary:

And that's the thing, isn't it? You just have to make decisions for what you know now.

Megan:

A hundred percent. You're never gonna have all the information. We don't know, how things are gonna evolve. I think that's a really good point. So when you look forward, what's your vision or hope or what are you excited about for the future?

Mary:

So I am, really excited about being part of the conversation around ai. And we do a lot of work with charities and communities trying to upskill them and make sure that nobody's left behind.

Megan:

Amazing.

Mary:

Because with the digital revolution, there's still, huge groups of people that are left behind and this is just gonna magnify it and mm-hmm. I have, it's really not fair. So whatever I can do around that. And I love speaking, so, yeah. Bizarre. I would never have thought that. So maybe doing a little bit more around that kind of thing. And, where we, I'm having. yeah, real fun. I wake up every day and there's still some stuff that AI can't, that I've got to do for myself that yeah, the boring stuff. But I get to do not much boring stuff. I get to do mostly exciting stuff and work with some amazing people. So, yeah, I would never have imagined that I would be here, and I'm very happy with where I am. I feel really lucky.

Megan:

That's amazing and I love that you are, working with charities and, focused on helping make sure there that digital gap doesn't widen, it's sad that there is a digital gap to begin with. And lots of people are left behind, even in today's world of, I mean, I live in London, you can't pay for many things with cash anymore, even that. And that's just gonna widen with AI and understanding it, being able to use it. so I think that's massive and, really amazing that that's one of your focus areas.

Mary:

No love that we do as much as we can for those disenfranchised groups.'cause it really isn't right. So there's a lot of policy stuff at government and things like that where, there's no such thing as a utopia, but can we please all work together to make it better?

Megan:

Mm-hmm. I a hundred percent agree. There's a lot to be done there. So, amazing. Mary, your journey is so cool and I love it just as such a great example of just what you were saying of leaning into the things that are interesting, that you enjoy. make decisions on the information you have in front of you. And I can definitely see that throughout your journey and it leads to some pretty amazing and unexpected places. So, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing your journey and also thank you for the amazing work you're doing right now with AI and I love that your nickname is AI Mary in Brighton. That's awesome.

Mary:

It is really fun. I really enjoyed talking with you and it's interesting that you when you're in it, you really don't see it. And then it is actually it is quite weird that I started as a nurse and now I'm doing this.'cause you just do what you do and I love that we are no longer boxed in. we can follow the path that we want to follow. It's no longer predefined in the way that it was,

Megan:

a hundred percent. We don't have to pick a job and stay in it for, 30, 35 years like our grandparents were doing. So yeah, it's an opportunity to pursue the things that are interesting. And change when you want to.

Mary:

Yeah. And thank you so much, Megan, for sharing all of these stories. We wouldn't, none of us would be sharing this without you.

Megan:

Oh, thank you. I am, yeah, really excited to be given the, opportunity to do it and that people are willing to share'cause I think it's so powerful, important to remind all of us of, we can make a change. We're not stuck. And although all these decisions feel really big, you know they're not life or death, you just make a decision. And then if it's not the right one, you just make a new decision. And I'm so inspired by your journey and everyone's, unique stories'cause they are all unique, which is amazing.

Mary:

Right. Thank you so much for having me.

Megan:

Thank you for, coming on. I appreciate it.

I had so much fun speaking with Mary about her journey. Three takeaways from our conversation that really stuck with me are one agility where others might have seen a closed door. Mary found a way to navigate those potential obstacles, whether it was getting into nursing school, to pivoting to ai when she and her partner saw how it would eventually disrupt their business. Second, there's a sense of forward momentum in Mary's journey that feels fueled by how she made decisions that allowed her to lean into what might be interesting or fun based on where she was in life from traveling and working as a private nurse to switching careers when she was looking for a bit more stability and then changing again to entrepreneurship when she wanted more flexibility. Third, the thread of caring. Throughout her journey, you can feel Mary's warmth even through Zoom, and you can see why she would've been drawn to nursing, but she still brings that care to working in ai, both making it very human focused, but also in our work to help ensure that others aren't left behind. It's a powerful reminder that our strengths and values add real value to what we do. And lastly, Mary's metric of ensuring that she loves what she's doing at least 50% of the time is a barometer we should all be using. Because if it's not meaning that at a minimum what are we even doing, it might be time to make a change. Thank you for listening to the unexpected career podcast, please follow, share and rate on your favorite podcast provider. The unexpected career podcast is produced, edited and hosted by me, Megan Dunford. See you next week.

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